Beginner whistle key question

[jehicks87]

Well, three new topics on my first day. I apologize to any of you whom, I am sure, have seen the enthusiasm of new players blasted all over the forums only to go quietly away within weeks. However, I genuinely want to learn the whistle, I enjoyed my Clarke as a child and have always wanted to "come back to it" over the years.

Now the question I have is RE: whistle keys. I have searched both these forums and the internet for information regarding keys. I have a basic understanding of the way whistles are keyed (lowest note played) and how the keys correlate to one another within the same instrument (1st and 2nd major scale, and minor scale), but what I don't understand is how one selects his/her key.

I have read "start with a D!" But, I am honestly not in love with the sound, outside of a few of the higher-end whistles such as impepe and tilbury, which I have sent various emails for used instruments which would be within my means. But my favorite sound so far has been the Bb, as played by PJ Whistler, and the Alto G sound. As much as I think ITM is beautiful, particularly Airs, I find myself imagining "singing" through the whistle. I cannot sing very well with my voice, and the whistle seems capable of a certain means of expression I just couldn't do on my own. Having said that, I find a woman's singing voice hypnotizing. Some examples in popular music would be Hayley Williams, the Canadian artist Keizsa, Ashley Monroe, etc. I've come to learn all of these examples, and others, are Mezzo Soprano Singers, most with a range between C and G. This is the range my ears find most comfortable, and the range that seems to move me most. I know an Alto G plays in these keys, so it would seem like an Alto G is the key for what I want to accomplish, and how I want to express myself... Which is why I am more attracted to airs when it comes to ITM, though the Jig "The Humors of Whiskey" is amazing when PJ played it.

Seems like a no-brainier, right? But then, to throw all that internal thought-process out the window... The Bb sounds awesome! What kind of songs does one normally find themselves playing with an instrument that plays in two flat scales? For example, minors are used a lot in Jazz and blues/rock, majors in pretty much everything, where does one find flats? Edited to add: Yes, I understand the Bb *is* a major scale but it just seems oddball to me. Where does one find this being used "in the wild?"

Long post, bit of a ramble, but I guess I just don't understand where a Bb fits into everything in the world of music.

For the record, I am currently not looking into low D's at all.

[Lars Larry Mór Mott]

Option 4: Alto A. Lovely sound and you can play in D too

[pancelticpiper]

I have a basic understanding of the way whistles are keyed (lowest note played) and how the keys correlate to one another within the same instrument (1st and 2nd major scale, and minor scale), but what I don't understand is how one selects his/her key.

What kind of songs does one normally find themselves playing with an instrument that plays in two flat scales? For example, minors are used a lot in Jazz and blues/rock, majors in pretty much everything, where does one find flats?

Seems to me that it boils down to two things

1) playing on your own: the size/key of the whistle could be whatever sounds good to you, whatever feels ergonomic to you.

2) playing with others: the key is determined by the key or keys that the other people are playing in.

As far as which keys are used in various ensembles, it depends on the genre.

If you're playing in ordinary ITM sessions then a D whistle is going to be needed for nearly all the music (because the music evolved, mainly, on the traditional trio of fiddle, flute, and uilleann pipes, two of the three being in the key of D). A few common session tunes require a C whistle. There are some session tunes which are far easier to play on an E whistle, an A whistle, or G whistle, but generations of players have learned to make do with playing them on a D whistle.

I do a lot of church music and the main three whistles I need are D, C, and Bb. Sometimes I'll need Eb, sometimes E, because the music can range from four sharps to four flats but usually no more than that.

If one plays professionally one ends up with whistles in every key. My whistle roll has whistles from Low D to high Eb chromatically, and I have used every single one on something or other (even the most oddball, which are the Gb, Ab, and Db).

About your statement about the 'first and second major scales and minor scale' this is slightly oversimplified, because obviously with the alternating sharp/flat 7th you get two Major scale yes but also two minor scales and several other scales to boot, sometime these being useful.

[Angel Shadowsong]

You opened a can of worms.

Did you say that a woman's voice is hypnotizing?

Its subjective. My mom sounds disturbing!

I get all the keys if I were you.

If you will play it in different genre or you are gonna accompany a singer, you need to adjust on their key and their singing ranges.

Flexibility is must, but whoad is another story.

I got Susato Sets as it is in my budget, but I like the purer sound of Burke.

You may not use all of them, but in case you need it in a war, you have a bullet with you.

If you can find a chromatic whistle that's better.

I wanted to find one in SATB range so I can play tunes in other modes.

[tin tin]

Go for whatever sounds nice to you. For the kind of music you describe, a G whistle would be lovely. D is the norm for Irish trad (particularly if you're playing with others), but if that's not what you're playing, you don't need a D. Your family/pets/neighbors will thank you.

[Feadoggie]

If you are not playing with others or if you do not have a driven need to play along with a particular recording and if you are not playing a particular repertoire in prescribed key signatures then buy whatever key of whistle appeals to you.

A couple of additional thoughts you might consider. I'll skip my usual logical based treatise on how to select a whistle key.

I have read "start with a D!" But, I am honestly not in love with the sound, outside of a few of the higher-end whistles such as impepe and tilbury, which I have sent various emails for used instruments which would be within my means

The sound of the high D, any maker, is very much dependent on the skill of the player. In the hands of a well practiced player it can exibit all the qualities you describe in you mezzo soprano singer description and be even a bit more angelic. The same is true for any whistle key. So don't start off thinking that a particular whistle or a particular key are the answer to all your needs. You have to learn to play the whistle well, in any key, from any maker. There's little to no magic in it. A well practiced player can make most any whistle sound fantastic. You have to do the work. That takes time and patience but it is well worth the effort. Take the long view of things.

but what I don't understand is how one selects his/her key.

It's simple.

Bb is a no brainer. Why do I say that? You can buy a Generation Bb whistle for ~$15 or less if you look hard enough. They practically give them away at that price. It is a darned good whistle. It sounds terrific and plays well (in the hands of a well practiced player). Every whistle player should have one. Seriously.

Get the Gen C, D and Eb while you're at it. Save on the shipping. You'll understand why in a few years.

Several folks have mentioned the A whistle. You should go for one of those too for the reasons already given. It adds those low leading tones to the tunes in D. It's a great key for accompanying female singers. Buy it after you have the Gen Bb though.

The low G is a lovely whistle as has been said. My favorite. It owns that sonic territory between the high D and the low D. Get one of those too.

No whistle set is complete without a low F. There are so many lovely tunes played in that range by Lunasa and others. The low F has been all the fashion since the late 1990's. So get one of those as well.

Hmmmm? Low Eb or low E? You can play in Bb on the low Eb but with and you get the lower leading tones so you'll need one of those. Low E is handy for playing with singer/guitarists that don't do DADGAD, you know, those mezzo soprano types. And it plays in A as well. So get one of those when you can.

Gotta have a low D. What self-respecting wannabe whistler doesn't have a low D. Don't deny it. You're scamming yourself if you do. Make sure it is the latest and greatest model though.

And your done. Angel has it right. You might as well by one (or two or three or more) whistle(s) in every key. You will sooner or later (if you stick with it). Resistance is futile.

Keep in mind, we here are all enablers, whistle junkies and whistle dealers.

The Bb is a no brainer. Really.

Have fun. remember it is called "playing" for a reason.

Feadoggie

[ytliek]

If you really are serious make it easy on yourself... get the entire whistle keys set and then figure everything out.

[Mr.Gumby]

No whistle set is complete without a low F.

Hm, having neither Low F nor a Bflat*, should I worry about being expelled?

*I do have a B though..

What self-respecting wannabe whistler doesn't have a low D.

[Peter Duggan]

I've come to learn all of these examples, and others, are Mezzo Soprano Singers, most with a range between C and G. This is the range my ears find most comfortable, and the range that seems to move me most.

What... a range of a fifth? Or a twelfth? Or two octaves and a fifth? (None of which describe a normal mezzo soprano range to me!)

I know an Alto G plays in these keys

In those keys, yes, but not that range, since it actually plays approx. two octaves from G (which might be a reasonable low extension for your female mezzo) sounding an octave above your singers.

What kind of songs does one normally find themselves playing with an instrument that plays in two flat scales?

Much the same kind of music as you play on any other size of whistle... songs to suit the range of singers, tunes composed in those keys (not unheard of, for instance, in Scottish trad) or standard 'D whistle' fare sounding a third lower because you like it like that!

[MadmanWithaWhistle]

Unless I'm being deliberately sociable for session purposes, I play almost exclusively in Bb on the whistle. It's just a great key. Somebody wants to play along? Just grab a D whistle. No harm in having a sound you enjoy while you're learning.

[Feadoggie]

Hm, having neither Low F nor a Bflat*, should I worry about being expelled?

You do know my tongue was firmly planted in my cheek. Right?

Maybe I should have gone with "it's the high D or the highway.".

And yes, I overlooked the B whistle. Get one of those too. I am surprised how much that one gets used to accompany singers. And it is indispensible for all of those A-flat minor tunes.

Feadoggie

[stanton135]

And yes, I overlooked the B whistle. Get one of those too. I am surprised how much that one gets used to accompany singers. And it is indispensible for all of those A-flat minor tunes.

Those are the G# minor tunes that the B whistle is great for. For the Ab minor tunes you need a Cb whistle. Gotta get one of those, too.

[Feadoggie]

Oh, yeah! B sharp or be square. C what I did there?

Feadoggie

[jehicks87]

I've come to learn all of these examples, and others, are Mezzo Soprano Singers, most with a range between C and G. This is the range my ears find most comfortable, and the range that seems to move me most.

What... a range of a fifth? Or a twelfth? Or two octaves and a fifth? (None of which describe a normal mezzo soprano range to me!)

In one of the songs in particular, the vocal range is listed as C4-G5, for instance. Am I misunderstanding what that means?

[Angel Shadowsong]

Correct me If I am wrong but I think Peter means the whistle's true range versus the average range of a Mezzo Singer.


If I am not mistaken, the average approximate range of a Mezzo Singer is A3-A5 ( Soprano is C4-C6)

If you got an A Whistle (Alto A as what is commonly called) its written range is A3-A5 (extending to E6 to some whistles)

but whistles' range are 1 octave higher than what is written.

If it is right, call it octave transposing instrument.