Walt Sweet Onyx Low D vs. Burke composite

[Cayden]

Hi all! New to C&F, though I have been lurking for several days and enjoying the site tremendously. I have been playing whistle for a few years having been inspired by time spent in Ireland, my Irish heritage, and a great love for the music of Ireland, particularly the Trad tunes. Both of my daughters grew up in competitve Irish dance and our home has been filled with the sounds of jigs, reels, hornpipes, and airs continuously.

My whistle playing has been as self taught on a cheap Hi D and I do not read music, but I am able to pick my way through tunes by ear and can add ornamentation to my satisfaction. I mainly play airs as I am not a fast player for tunes such as jigs and reels.

I am planing to take the jump to a well made Low D and have been researching Burkes, MK, Colin Goldie, and the Walt Sweet Onyx Low D. I am pretty much narrowing my choice toward a composite whistle so I am leaning toward the Burke and the Sweet. The Onyx is made about a half hours drive away from my home.

Both the Burke and the Onyx are in the same general price range and offer whistles made of composite material. I tend to like the sound of a wood, but not the associated problems. I would appreciate any light (opinion) that anyone can shed on both the Burke and the Walt Sweet Onyx low D whistles, especially from owner / players of either instrument. I will be a novice low whistle player and have never used the piper grip, and my hands are of average size. I am looking toward lowering the learning curve by capitalizing on the ergonomic offerings of the whistle I select, with hole spacing, inline vs. offset, hole size, and air requirements all being given consideration, though I fully realize that enjoyment of the process and regular playing are integral to playing the low whistle well.

All that said, let the opinions fly and I appreciate any help rendered.

Cayden

[Feadoggie]

Welcome to the C&F whistle forum.

I own/play a BUrke composite low D. I do not own the Onyx. Both makers are at the top echelon of the whistle making craft. Both makers are easy to deal with. Both are good whistles. Both play well. They play a bit different. Both sound nice. They sound a bit different. Neither is better, just different.

I would suggest you either try to play them before you buy or buy both and decide yourself. You won't learn an awful lot that's pertinent to you as a player by listening to us talk about which one we like.

Both the Burke and the Onyx are in the same general price range and offer whistles made of composite material.

The tubing on the Burke is a true composite material. The Burke tube is made from a composite of wood fiber and bakelite resin. The head and other parts are machined from delrin. It is an amazingly lightweight whistle.

The Sweet is machined from solid polymers - technically not a composite material but I think Walt may have used two polymers for different parts - acetal (generic delrin) and polycarbonate. It's noticeably heavier than the Burke but not what I would call heavy.

I tend to like the sound of a wood, but not the associated problems.

While I do not hold with the mythology that says a material has a particular sound (the sound has much more to do with the head and bore design), I will offer that many players say the Burke sounds "woody". The Burkes, in spite of their lightweight, are very durable. I have had a few Burke composite whistle for over ten years now and have had no issues with any of them. Burke puts the delrin where it does the most good.

The Sweet construction is bullet proof. If you were to run a car over a Sweet and a Burke composite low D, I'd bet on the Sweet surviving to play another day.

I will be a novice low whistle player and have never used the piper grip, and my hands are of average size. I am looking toward lowering the learning curve by capitalizing on the ergonomic offerings of the whistle I select, with hole spacing, inline vs. offset, hole size

Burke makes two models of his composite low D. The Viper incorporates a rotating bottom hole to allow the player to customize the position of the bottom hole to their own hand. The Burke composite EZ low D has a closer spacing of the bottom two holes. I do not believe that the EZ comes with a rotating bottom hole but you might want to ask Mike Burke directly about that. I find that with the rotating bottom hole on the Viper there is no reason to go with the EZ model. I own an aluminum Viper low D, my composite Burke is an EZ.

The Onyx uses "ergonomic" hole spacing. The holes are set in fixed positions. That will work well for some hands and it won't work any better for others than having the holes in a straight line. The only way to tell if the layout works for you is to play one. I personally prefer holes to be in-line. I've played "ergonomic" whistles where the holes positions actually made using the EZ Grip harder and forced me to stretch with a standard grip to play them (didn't keep that whistle!).

The Super Duper EZ Grip (formerly know as Piper's Grip) is a good skill to embrace. It does not take long to come to grips with it and it makes most any whistle accessible to you as a player regardless of the rotating or ergonomic position of the holes. It's the way to go in any case, IMO.

Burke does provide a warranty that includes a 30 day return policy. I do not know that Walt explicitly offers a return policy but he does have a broadly worded 100% satisfaction guarantee. Read between the lines here. (It may be possible to try them both - sshhh!) In any case, buy directly from the maker. It's nice to "meet your maker", so to speak.

If you do buy the Onyx make sure you also buy the uniform that is required to play the whistle.

Burke makes no such requirement of his customers.

Feadoggie

[ytliek]

I am planing to take the jump to a well made Low D and have been researching Burkes, MK, Colin Goldie, and the Walt Sweet Onyx Low D. I am pretty much narrowing my choice toward a composite whistle so I am leaning toward the Burke and the Sweet. The Onyx is made about a half hours drive away from my home.

Welcome to the forum. As a newbie I can't speak to the Low D comparison, but, a suggestion I can offer. You live about a "half hours drive away" contact Walt Sweet and make arrangements to play his Onyx in person. http://wdsweetflutes.com/instruments-on-tour.php

again, Welcome and cheers whistling

[Steve Bliven]

I can only add that the Sweet is more difficult to get a clear tone from than the Burke if played in the configuration shown in the photo....

Best wishes.

Steve

[Ted]

I am not a fan of offset holes. The EZ grip is actually quite easy to get used too. All it takes is the determination to use it and practice. It may take a couple of weeks to get really comfortable, but in the long term, you will find that finger tip fingering is just not as fast and accurate. Well worth the time spent getting used to the EZ grip. If you get offset holes, the easy grip will not work well. There are those who just think they must play with their finger tips. Either grip will take getting used to. One is not easier to get your muscle memory used to than the other. I can use either, but the EZ grip is more ergonomic. My hands cramp if using finger tips but I can play for hours using the EZ grip.

The Burke is somewhat louder than the onyx. I like the tone of both, they sound different from each other. Swayne makes a great wooden low D, but they are hard to get.

[Cayden]

Feadoggle, YTliek, and Steve Bliven,
Thanks for your replies, the welcome to the C&F, and the great laugh. I do plan to visit Walt and look at the Onyx up close and personal. the Burke on the other hand I have listened to several sound clips and I like what I hear. If funds were unlimited, I would justmhave one of each. certainly with the makers I listed, all make great whistles.

Cheers,
Cayden

[Cayden]

Ted,
You and Feadoggle raise some valid points regarding offset vs. Inline holes, and other ergonomic considerations. Hole spacing certainly has an effect on tonal qualities. Having only played hi wistles I am use to playing with finger tips. the piper grip is certainly worth adapting to for ease of being able to switch between the various makes of low whistles. I am not fond of the idea of any use of the pinkie to reach the bottom hole (old habits die hard). Thanks for yournthoughts.

Cayden

[ecohawk]

As usual, I'm late to the party but I'll offer my two cents anyway. I'm in complete agreement with those who prefer in-line holes and Pipers or Super EZ grip. I have big hands and can easily handle the spread to play with fingertips but I don't like ergonomic hole placement or ez-reach whistles unless it's just not an option. Some may find it a necessity so YMMV.

I own a Burke Composite low D and have played extensively a Sweet Onyx low D owned by a friend. The Sweet is a very good whistle and uses the ergonomic hole placement. It is well in tune and easy to play throughout but wants some deft breath control to get a solid bell note, though the top end is very sweet (no pun intended).

The Burke has a much stronger bottom end and, like most Burke's is a pure toned free-blowing instrument with very little resistance (back pressure if you must). It is louder across it's range than the Sweet Onyx and will reach easily into the high range.

My assessment is that if you need the ergonomic features and don't need strong low-end volume go with the Onyx. If not, the Burke has a stronger tone and is more versatile and my personal preference lies there - between these two.

But they are both very good low D whistles. As others have previously stated, these are personal opinions and you may feel very differently about these if you tried them both.

ecohawk

[Cayden]

Ecohawk,
Thanks for your comments. Nice to hear from someone who has played both whistles.

Cayden

[AvienMael]

I might usually tend to have rather long-winded opinions on such things, but I'll keep it short and simple. The MK whistle. Your interest stems from a more traditional sound, the Burke won't give you that. While it's easier to play, in time you'll find it's too pure... at least I did, and I'm not alone in this respect. The MK will reward you with exactly what you want, if you put the time into it. Deal directly with Misha, he will help you get what you want.

[Cayden]

AvienMael,
I am leaning toward the MK for the reasons you stated. Any idea on wait time for a whistle?

Cayden

[Steve Bliven]

AvienMael,
I am leaning toward the MK for the reasons you stated. Any idea on wait time for a whistle?

Cayden

Doc has a couple of them at the Irish Flute Store http://www.shop.irishflutestore.com/Iri ... les_c4.htm
No waiting....

[[ Edit: Oops, sorry. They've been sold.]]


Best wishes.

Steve

[cunparis]

My first low whistle was an MK. Thinking "the grass is always greener" i bought some other brands including a burke (F). I love the pure sound of the burke, so much that i got a Bb burke too. But i think Burke and MK are different enough that it's not easy to recommend one over the other, it's really a question of personal preference. That said the MK is myfavorite and I've already sold another low d i had but so far i dont have any plans to sell the burkes.

One issue for those living in the US is that if there are customs duties on the MK, the Burke might be cheaper.

[AvienMael]

I've never encountered a situation where I had to pay any customs duties on a whistle imported to the USA.

Wait time varies from MK, depending on what they have in stock, and/or how close they are to having more whistles ready. Whistles shipped from the UK have typoically arrived to my Upstate New York address in less than 10 days. Again, deal directly with Misha, and you will know what to expect and when. Also worth mentioning is that he was able to match my particular preferences in a low D exactly as I described them to him, when I bought my second one.

[Cayden]

Avienmael,
I am negotiating on barely used MK Pro in satin black that was hand selected by Misha for a very accomplished professional musician / Uillean piper. The whistle is mint and in
the USA now. I will let you know how I make out. Thanks for your help.

Cayden