Whistle sounds WAY diffent to my ear than it does mic'd

[voggy_dog]

Weirdest thing. I just received a low D whistle from a well known, yet minor independent whistle maker. When I first listened to the low octave, I was horrified. It sounded "buzzy" and indistinct. I felt like I was playing a low-octave kazoo. I contacted the maker to arrange for service on the flute, which he was agreeable to. Before sending it back, I decided to take some time to try to get a feel for the whistle, in case is the problem was with me.

After several hours of experimentation, I got the low sound in the low octave to be more consistent, but it still had this nasty "buzzing" sound. I decided to record the whistle so that I would have something to send to the maker to explain my difficulty.

Here's where it gets weird.... The microphone didn't pick up the buzz. On mic, the sound was actually pretty impressive, even though it sounded horrific to me. I cornered one of my roomates and forced him to listen to the "kazoo" sounding Low D, and a Dixon Duo Head, and tell me which sounded better. He selected the "kazoo". He couldn't detect the buzzing that was driving me crazy.

Has anyone had a similar experience? The whistle sounds horrible to me, but good on recordings, or to someone else listening?

[tompipes]

Good one alright,

Is it leaking at the tuning slide or at the mouth piece?
for example, if there was tiny leak at the tuning slide it could cause a tiny vibration that you could hear and feel your self and others wouldn't experience it.

Or it could be a design feature by the maker.

Old high end violin makers (maybe new ones too) used to make their instruments to project the sweeter tones of their instruments so the audience would think the instrument was amazing but it would sound awful to the performer.

Still an odd one though.

Tommy

[Lars Larry Mór Mott]

Only 'similar experience' is my own voice, which sounds perfectly normal to me when speaking/singing but when i hear it recorded it makes me cringe

[Brigitte]

just wondering if you might be a biter or have any hard contact on the mouthpiece, like clamping with your lips or resting on your bottom teeth.... if so, this also could make you hear it differently and also make the whistle sound harsher which you can hear "underneath the sound" but maynot be so noticeable when picked up or by a not so familiar with the sounds person....

Greetings
Brigitte



and that voice recording experience I can second, when I heard my voice recorded first, I was surprised and did not recognise me

[voggy_dog]

just wondering if you might be a biter or have any hard contact on the mouthpiece, like clamping with your lips or resting on your bottom teeth.... if so, this also could make you hear it differently and also make the whistle sound harsher which you can hear "underneath the sound" but maynot be so noticeable when picked up or by a not so familiar with the sounds person....

Interesting observation. Yeah... I am biting the fipple a bit. I noticed my teeth had left marks in finish of the fipple when I was putting it away last night.

[voggy_dog]

Is it leaking at the tuning slide or at the mouth piece?
for example, if there was tiny leak at the tuning slide it could cause a tiny vibration that you could hear and feel your self and others wouldn't experience it.

First thing I checked. I used a bit of teflon tape to seal it up tight. No difference.

[JTC111]

Interesting observation. Yeah... I am biting the fipple a bit. I noticed my teeth had left marks in finish of the fipple when I was putting it away last night.

So you really have two things going on... you're hearing the whistle differently when you're playing as opposed to the recorded sound because sound waves are traveling through the bone, muscle, flesh, etc. to get to your eardrum (this is why we sound different to ourselves when our voices are recorded), and you're getting a buzzing from your teeth on the whistle that sounds exaggerated as it makes its way to your eardrum.

You can improve upon the latter problem, but the laws of physics are against you on the former.

[voggy_dog]

So you really have two things going on... you're hearing the whistle differently when you're playing as opposed to the recorded sound because sound waves are traveling through the bone, muscle, flesh, etc. to get to your eardrum (this is why we sound different to ourselves when our voices are recorded), and you're getting a buzzing from your teeth on the whistle that sounds exaggerated as it makes its way to your eardrum.

The tooth contact was part of the problem, as far as the rest? I am guessing that I might be getting an "out of phase" wave that is being directed back at myself (and only myself... maybe through the hole in the top of the fipple?) that interferes with the "primary" tone. This is kind of an "out there" sort of hypothesis, but I can't think of much else. Regardless, the whistle sounds tolerable to the outside observer (my lack of facility at playing not withstanding), So I guess all is well.

[bogman]

A couple of things, you may well be doing this anyway...... If recording make sure you are 8 to 10 inches from the mic, if live make sure you've got a good mic - sm58 or beta57a are ideal, and try playing with the sound hole directed either just over or just under the head of the mic. With some whistles, the air going directly from the sound hole into the mic can give an undesirable sound.

[fearfaoin]

I am guessing that I might be getting an "out of phase" wave that is being directed back at myself (and only myself... maybe through the hole in the top of the fipple?) that interferes with the "primary" tone. This is kind of an "out there" sort of hypothesis, but I can't think of much else.

That would sound like "beats" more than buzzing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beat_%28acoustics%29

I think your physiology is probably the culprit,
though it's a little weird that only one whistle
has the problem. It may be hitting just the right
frequencies to resonate some bone in your ear.

You could try a wide-brimmed hat to redirect
more of the whistle's own sound to your ears.
This might overwhelm whatever causes the
buzz.

I have a problem in my left ear where buzzing
and/or fuzzy sounds will occur when exposed
to higher volumes. But it's not something that
is particular to one instrument. I think some of
my cilia are just damaged.

[Pipe Bender]

Previous members have alluded to this, but I'll restate it just in case this still may be the culprit:

What a whistle player hears from his/her whistle when playing is not the same as what others hear while listening to him/her playing. Thus some characteristics of the whistle's sound that are readily apparent to the player may in fact not be nearly so apparent to the listener, especially at distances of over a meter away.

For example, when I first started playing my Burke narrow-bore brass D I was initially put off by the slight ringing harmonic it seemed to have. It did take a while to realize the sound was quite normal for this whistle and I was the only one who would hear it.

EDIT: Let me add something unrelated that should give you all a good chuckle. I knew about this sound phenomenon, but it didn't actually dawn on me until a day or two later. The first couple of days I had my new Burke whistle I was confounded by the warbling sound it had and was thinking of sending it back when I realized I had been sitting in close proximity to an air fan each day.

[mutepointe]

If you know someone else who plays the whistle, please have them play the whistle for you, so that you can listen to the whistle. That's a bit different than hearing yourself play the same whistle.

[voggy_dog]

If you know someone else who plays the whistle, please have them play the whistle for you, so that you can listen to the whistle. That's a bit different than hearing yourself play the same whistle.

That's a good Idea... Thanks! (although I know of no one else who plays the whistle.. just you guys).

Actually, that gets me to thinking; I have never actually known anybody who plays the bagpipes. However, every St. Patricks day and during other assorted parades/holidays, hundreds of bagpipers come out of the woodwork. Do they belong to a secret society? Live in underground lairs (Or volcano-island hideouts.. that would be cool)? Have secret identities? What is the mystery of bagpipers?

[voggy_dog]

Previous members have alluded to this, but I'll restate it just in case this still may be the culprit:

What a whistle player hears from his/her whistle when playing is not the same as what others hear while listening to him/her playing. Thus some characteristics of the whistle's sound that are readily apparent to the player may in fact not be nearly so apparent to the listener, especially at distances of over a meter away.

For example, when I first started playing my Burke narrow-bore brass D I was initially put off by the slight ringing harmonic it seemed to have. It did take a while to realize the sound was quite normal for this whistle and I was the only one who would hear it.

OK.. so I'm not crazy. Thank you very much.

[kokopelli]

Actually, that gets me to thinking; I have never actually known anybody who plays the bagpipes. However, every St. Patricks day and during other assorted parades/holidays, hundreds of bagpipers come out of the woodwork. Do they belong to a secret society? Live in underground lairs (Or volcano-island hideouts.. that would be cool)? Have secret identities? What is the mystery of bagpipers?

After wondering the same thing for many years I've finally found someone who plays bagpipes! It was entirely accidental. I didn't even know about it until I was celebrating St. Patrick's day at his house and he pulled them out and started playing. Apparently that's the only time he ever plays them anymore so I don't know if you can judge active pipers by his behavior. However, in order to give the world of whistlers a better understanding of the mysterious being known as a piper, I will share what I know about him with you. He used to be part of a group of pipers, though he isn't anymore. You might even have called it a secret society. They only ever played pipes when they were together in a location that was designated for that purpose. There were some drummers who were also part of that group but they don't get spoken of very often. One aspect of the piper that you left out is their Clark Kent-like ability to spontaneously change outfits when the time for action comes. It is rare, if not impossible, to find someone playing pipes without a kilt on. I believe this has led to the common belief that pipers always wear kilts. I can now assure you that this is not the case. Part of what makes them so difficult to spot in the wild is their ability to look just like everybody else until they disappear for a moment and reappear clad in kilt with pies in hand. It must be one of the codes of their secret society. I'm sure they practice speed changing and clever hiding techniques for their pipes. As for the underground lairs, I can't help you with that. If my pipe playing friend has one, he's done a good job of hiding it from me; which is what I would expect of someone with an underground lair. Perhaps someone else can shed some light on that aspect of the bagpiper.