On to whistle please advise

[ejbpesca]

With advice of another forum section I ordered a tenor recorder to meet my needs for a music project. It is too big for me to play.

I can play a soprano but wanting something different.

Would a low D penny whistle be as big as a tenor recorder?

If a guitar were playing the chords D C. G. What key whistle would be best to make up a melody?

I like a haunting primitive sound. Will wood or metal matter for that?

Jb

[benhall.1]

It's hard to say what's wrong in terms of the tenor recorder being too big for you to play. But, if it is, I would suggest that a low D whistle will be even harder for you.

In any case, from the chords you give, it sounds as if you want a low G whistle, which would be smaller than a tenor recorder, but still sound reasonably 'low'.

And it it's primitive you're after, go for bone. Seriously though, I don't think there's one straight answer for your last question. Different whistles, by different makers, sound different. Some metal ones might give you the sound you're after, and some other makes in wood might give you that sound. You might have to find a friendly whistle shop to either let you try or at least blow some down the phone at you and give you some direct, personal advice.

[Feadoggie]

Benhall answered your questions while I was writing this but I'll give you my take as well.

Would a low D penny whistle be as big as a tenor recorder?

You will find that they are roughly the same size. The spread of the top six holes (actually seven on the recorder with the double hole) on the face of the instrument will be similar overall but the size and layout of each hole will vary somewhat. The stretch between the BH1 and BH2 hole will generally be greater on the tenor recorder over the low D owing to the design of the scale on the recorder. And I am assuming you have a key or keys for the bottom most holes on the recorders lowest hole(s).

I find the low D easier to finger myself. I can easily use the piper's grip on the low D. That is how many, perhaps most people play the low D.

You can also try the Piper's grip on the tenor if you like. The pinch hole can be an issue for the top hand. Depending on how your holes are laid out, it may not be as workable as on a Low D with in-line holes.

So basically I think you'd have to try a Low D to see if you can handle it. A whistle like the Sweetheart resonance or the Dixon conical bore low D may be your best bets as far as finger stretch goes.

As has been said chords of G,C and D indicate the key of G and either a high D whistle, a low G or a low D would work easily. A low G can have a nice, vocal sound and the stretch is similar to an alto recorder. The low G is one of my most used whistles for song accompaniment. Many guitar players around here only seen to know three chords - G, C and D. The low G may not be as low and haunting as a low D but if you think about feminine ghosts perhaps it gets you where you want to go.

I like a haunting primitive sound. Will wood or metal matter for that?

Material makes not nearly as much difference in the sound of a whistle compared to the design of the head. And even more of the sound is rendered by the player's skill. Any well designed Low D can sound haunting in the right hands. And there may not be much distance between haunting and frightful when that whistle is in the wrong hands.

Hope that helps.

Feadoggie

[benhall.1]

I find the low D easier to finger myself. I can easily use the piper's grip on the low D. That is how many, perhaps most people play the low D.

That's interesting. Yes, I use piper's grip myself. I can never see how it's possible without. It's been a while since I even tried a tenor recorder, but I remember it being fairly easy to finger, which the low certainly isn't for me. I wlonder if it's because the tenor I was using had smaller holes than my low Ds? I say that because mine have fairly large holes, and one of the issues is sealing the holes properly at the same time as getting that stretch, which I didn't find an issue with the tenor recorder (IIRC).

[Feadoggie]

I find the low D easier to finger myself. I can easily use the piper's grip on the low D. That is how many, perhaps most people play the low D.

That's interesting. Yes, I use piper's grip myself. I can never see how it's possible without. It's been a while since I even tried a tenor recorder, but I remember it being fairly easy to finger, which the low certainly isn't for me. I wlonder if it's because the tenor I was using had smaller holes than my low Ds? I say that because mine have fairly large holes, and one of the issues is sealing the holes properly at the same time as getting that stretch, which I didn't find an issue with the tenor recorder (IIRC).

Yeah, it could be due to how the scale was laid out on your recorder. I really have no issues playing either but they are old hats to me. I just find the low whistles easier these days.

I had a Yamaha 300 series tenor sitting here next to both a Burke and a Dixon low D when I wrote the last post. And the holes on the Yamaha are not much smaller than on the Dixon. The top hand stretch between the TH2 and TH3 holes is slightly greater on the recorder over the whistles but not by much. The stretch between BH1 and BH2 seems to be the biggest difference between the recorder and the whistles, that's why I mention it. So if the stretch between the middle finger and the index finger of the bottom hand is the issue then I assume the Low D could have an advantage.

And the Super Duper Easy Grip (the grip formerly known as the Piper's Grip) should be attempted on the tenor since you already have it. It's worth a shot and does not cost anything.

Gotta go.

Feadoggie

[James_Alto]

With advice of another forum section I ordered a tenor recorder to meet my needs for a music project. It is too big for me to play.

I can play a soprano but wanting something different.

Would a low D penny whistle be as big as a tenor recorder?

If a guitar were playing the chords D C. G. What key whistle would be best to make up a melody?

I like a haunting primitive sound. Will wood or metal matter for that?

Jb

Nuts. Really sorry to hear the Yamaha didn't work out.

Can you say why it is too big for you to play?

I was only joking about leprechauns - honest!

Have you thought about the alto recorder? Although it reads a fourth below the soprano. It is only about 40cm or so.

Your guitar chords are using the major chords - any whistle in the key of D (high D or low D -maybe a finger stretch with pipers grip); or key of G or C will be fine. Personally, i'd go for a D key. Wood has more character, than metal (more polished sounding). I haven't seen any wooden penny whistles - maybe someone can recommend these. For a haunting primitive sound, nothing beats the didgeridoo

Well actually, a bass recorder does, but that's going to be a stretch. Maybe you'd be best just to start learning flute embouchure lol. That will open up a world of flutes for you.

[Denny]

there may not be much distance between haunting and frightful when that whistle is in the wrong hands.

can ya get a frightful haunting sound?


or is it all Casper like....

[killthemessenger]

It's going to take more than a couple of days to learn to hold and finger the tenor recorder. The low D has a much less ergonomic layout.

[Feadoggie]

It's going to take more than a couple of days to learn to hold and finger the tenor recorder.

Yes, I'd say you are on the mark. I'd guess that is the largest part of the problem here. And that would probably be the same issue with pretty much any Low D whistle initially.

The low D has a much less ergonomic layout.

Seems a very generalized statement, doesn't it?. Measurements? Makers? Models?

Feadoggie

[killthemessenger]

Generalisations aren't necessarily false.

Makers, models etc. - any cylindrical low D.

[Feadoggie]

Makers, models etc. - any cylindrical low D.

Well, that's why I asked. And I'm not trying to be argumentative here, just objective. I, like yourself, had felt that the ergonomics of the tenor recorder may be better in general than a low D. But why assume? So I got out the instruments and the calipers. Surprise! Before I made my post above I measured a Yamaha tenor recorder, which also happens to be the instrument in question by the OP, against a Dixon and a Burke low D which are both cylindrical. As I said the size of each instrument is similar. They would have to be given the physics and the pitches they produce. But the recorder has a significantly longer stretch between BH1 and BH2 by nearly .7 inches (measuring the holes c-t-c) compared to the cylindrical Low D's. That's a big difference and I wouldn't be surprised if that's not the deal breaker for the OP.

Nonetheless, I still think that you are right that the OP is just not comfortable with the tenor because of the lack of time spent with the instrument and I agree that they would have the same issue on most low D's.

The recorder uses a pinch hole to control the octaves. That places a requirement on the upper hand position which is not required on the Low D. You can easily use the SDEG (Super Duper Easy Grip) on the upper hand of the Low D while it might be more of an issue on the recorder.

I tend to use a conventional grip with the top hand on a recorder to handle the pinch hole but I can play the bottom hand more flat fingered. I can play flat fingered with both hands on any Low D which I think is less stressful and more comfortable (and yes, I'm an old bugger with a fair amount of arthritis in the fingers). Maybe I should recuse myself of having an opinion in this matter anyway. I've played the tenor recorder for 40+ years and the low whistle for 20-ish years so I probably don't remember what it feels like to pick either of these up for the first time.

But it all comes down to what the OP is comfortable playing, and putting in the time to become comfortable. Doesn't it?

Feadoggie

[Innocent Bystander]

True, it is mostly down to what you are comfortable with, but you can extend your abilities by practice. Can't you? I certainly hope so!
I have (homemade) Low G, F, D and C whistles. Time was when I made the low C, I could hardly play the thing at all. Five minutes and my hand was cramping. And the piper's grip is necessary.
The low G is a doddle. Hardly different from playing a high D. The low F took a bit of getting used to, but I can play it without fear or preparation now. It's made the low D accessible. True, I have to shift it slightly to the right so my right hand doesn't have to stretch so far, but that's no problem. And now I can play the low C too.

So if you can spare the cash, or if you can make your own, it's worth spending some time with an intermediate size of instrument.

[James_Alto]

I tend to use a conventional grip with the top hand on a recorder to handle the pinch hole but I can play the bottom hand more flat fingered. I can play flat fingered with both hands on any Low D which I think is less stressful and more comfortable (and yes, I'm an old bugger with a fair amount of arthritis in the fingers). Maybe I should recuse myself of having an opinion in this matter anyway. I've played the tenor recorder for 40+ years and the low whistle for 20-ish years so I probably don't remember what it feels like to pick either of these up for the first time.

I think I'm leaning this way too (the flat fingered pipers grip I mean - not the arthritis I hope). I'm quite adept at using the little pinky finger to operate a key, but using it to cover a complete hole isn't as good.

Interesting what you say about the recorder's ergonomics too. I used to find the bass recorder easier: the strap harness takes the weight; the right thumb, uses the thumb support to lift the weight, so the left hand is nearly completely freed of weight bearing. The angle of the bass recorder, can be suspended diagonally across the body, using the bocal, so there is no strain with the instrument in front. I could play for ages like this (but never do, due to the airway clogging up). In contrast, the notched flutes ... these are quite exhausting: arms out; 45 degrees, the flute is planted in front. After 5 minutes, it wears me ...

Ejb - maybe stick at the tenor for just 5 minutes every day. See how you feel about it at the end of a fortnight. Remember - you don't always need to use the bottom key (C). I know you want chords in D and G and C, but you can still use a lot of recorder for your purposes.

[mutepointe]

If you're looking for a haunting sound, have you considered a bamboo flute or a bass ocarina?

Also, where's this forum section that recommended a tenor recorder? Maybe we can show them the other uses for an Aluminum Low D whistle. Maybe they'll check in with us first before they consider a recommendation like this again. I'm sure they wouldn't mind if we stop by for an expresso and biscotti. Just sayin.

[Feadoggie]

Also, where's this forum section that recommended a tenor recorder? Maybe we can show them the other uses for an Aluminum Low D whistle. Maybe they'll check in with us first before they consider a recommendation like this again. I'm sure they wouldn't mind if we stop by for an expresso and biscotti. Just sayin.

Am I to assume that you will be covering the aluminum whistle with a layer of rubber insulation?