Exploring the Negative Generation Urban Legend

[Wiz]

All had crooked mouthpieces, some by as much as about 30 degrees out!

The window not in line with the tone holes, this required removal and re-assembly of the head. The flashing was within the window, at the sides, some on the blade. Purchased from Oz Whistles. Gens available from a local source some years ago were just the same, only more money than from Oz Whistles. In fact, my first ever whistle from 14 years back was a non-player Gen, out of line mouth piece and lots of flashing, terrible thing. I blamed myself of course and shelved the idea of whistle playing until quite recently. I eventually dug out the said Gen, followed instructions found on this website - thanks folks - and got the thing working. It is now a keeper, a blue top nickel in D, but it was a shocker. All of the recent brass Gens needed some work, although a couple did play okay, but improved with a little tweaking. The off centre mouthpieces were a major annoyance for me though. The only instruments available in my local music shop are Waltons, and none of his stock showed these problems. I bought a couple, the C is quite okay, the D is not so hot, being a bit touchy on the breath control front. Good exercise though!

[Kypfer]

All had crooked mouthpieces, some by as much as about 30 degrees out!

The window not in line with the tone holes, this required removal and re-assembly of the head. The flashing was within the window, at the sides, some on the blade.

One almost wonders if there wasn't a batch of third-party "clone" or factory reject whistles that managed to find their way into the supply chain

[hoopy mike]

One almost wonders if there wasn't a batch of third-party "clone" or factory reject whistles that managed to find their way into the supply chain

I bought a wonky picture frame from a guy down the pub once. Turned out that it had fallen off the back of a Lowry.

[jemtheflute]

One almost wonders if there wasn't a batch of third-party "clone" or factory reject whistles that managed to find their way into the supply chain

I bought a wonky picture frame from a guy down the pub once. Turned out that it had fallen off the back of a Lowry.

Bit sticky, was it? Manky, even?

[Mr.Gumby]

I don't care much for 'analysing' soundclips, it is very hard to tell between a player who doesn't blow well and a whistle that's genuinely out of tune. My impression, from listening to the Eb clip, is that it's pretty much a case of the former.

Anyhow, I did the same thing yesterday, sat in front of a microphone and blew into a whistle, no frills. I must add that Jerry, a while ago, tried to convince me once again that the back fill tweak was highly effective, As a result I filled the cavity of this particular whistle. It pretty much ruined it and while I have so far scraped about half the fill away it's still a bit hissy on some notes (where it wasn't before). Lots of loss and no gain but that's the way it is right now. I sort of half suspect the OP would find this whistle worse than his own.

Clip

I must agree a bit with fearfaoin's 'The rest of us are well past tired of the subject'.. After ten years of discussing this I think I have said my piece a few times but it's good to see the forum has matured enough not to shoot the messenger anymore. The barrage of 'Generation apologists' and that sort of personalised stuff got a bit old.

[Jerry Freeman]

Lovely soundclip. A very nice start to the day.

Best wishes,
Jerry

[tin tin]

I wonder if the ongoing (and yes, tiresome) misconceptions and confusion about Generations has something to do with contrary definitions of what a 'good Generation' is. Inexperienced players seem inclined think that means a smooth (bland, to use MT's term) whistle, whereas to a good player, the desirable Gen has features inexperienced players find objectionable.

If one's on the quest for the 'legendary good Generation' but isn't looking for the right thing, of course it won't seem like many good Generations exist. (When in fact, one might already have one, like the Eb above.)

Also, when will people stop expecting the whistle to be an equal temperament instrument?! It's not chromatic, so there's no need for it to be in ET. Since it plays in a limited number of related keys, just temperament is much more the thing.

[hoopy mike]

I don't care much for 'analysing' soundclips, it is very hard to tell between a player who doesn't blow well and a whistle that's genuinely out of tune. My impression, from listening to the Eb clip, is that it's pretty much a case of the former.

True, but maybe there's merit in comparing the Eb vs the G for a single player. I'm suprised that MT liked the Eb clip, which sounded rather out of tune to me. Whether the out of tuneness is down to the whistle or down to the player is another question...

[NicoMoreno]

All had crooked mouthpieces, some by as much as about 30 degrees out!

The window not in line with the tone holes, this required removal and re-assembly of the head

I'm surprised nobody else seems to have picked up on this, but it appears all he's saying is that the entire plastic head was rotated on the metal tube. Yeah, this isn't ideal, but it also is something that I don't even think about, much less would ever describe to anyone as a major flaw... After all, one must break the glue seal to make the thing tunable... after that you rotate the head to your preferred orientation and you're done.

I think it should be said that no serious whistle player would ever call a Generation (or any other mass-produced whistle) objectively bad if the head is not in the ideal location. Moving it isn't even a minor fix. It's just part of setting up the whistle to be comfortable to play and in tune with those around you.

[Jerry Freeman]

Here, fwiw, are soundclips of two whistles (I can't seem to recall who recorded them):

TWEAKED GenDog
UNTWEAKED GenDog

These are both "GenDogs," which is to say, a bluetop Generation whistlehead, tweaked or untweaked, on a nickel Feadog tonebody. (I don't sell these nowadays, as they're not different enough from regular tweaked Generations to go to the extra trouble.)

Best wishes,
Jerry

[crookedtune]

I'll sheepishly admit that the more experience I get, the less I tend to play my "easy", "pure" and "birdlike" whistles. But I firmly believe I wouldn't have stuck with whistle-playing if I hadn't had them around when I was a struggling beginner.

I still enjoy owning a small collection that gives me some variety. Generations fit well into the collection. Personally, I haven't played a "bad" one or grown especially attached to a "great" one either.

[Mr.Gumby]

I'm surprised nobody else seems to have picked up on this

I interpreted it as being genuinely bent, like the one in the photograph I posted in reply. But you're right, there isn't actually any issue there at all.

We can turn over the whole thing time and time again, in the past I have actually gone out to the shop and bought whistles a number of times to show there is no reason why one couldn't buy a perfectly serviceable whistle off the shelf. The objectors would invariably come up with arguments like 'yes but you picked a good one while the rest of them were no doubt crap' (some even called trying a whistle before buying dishonest to other buyers) or would come up with arguments like 'yes but you can play anything well' which is too silly to even consider as an argument (I am a positively mediocre whistleplayer) .

A good Generation type) whistle plays cleanly, without gurgles,scratches, undue hiss, is in tune (not necessarily ET) and sounds sweet. That's all there is to it. There's one caveat though, you will actually have to be able to play it, it can't be emphasised enough that a whistle is not a push button instrument like a concertina, a piano or an organ. You actually have to put in a bit of work to get it sounding right.

[hoopy mike]

Here, fwiw, are soundclips of two whistles (I can't seem to recall who recorded them):

TWEAKED GenDog
UNTWEAKED GenDog

These are both "GenDogs," which is to say, a bluetop Generation whistlehead, tweaked or untweaked, on a nickel Feadog tonebody. (I don't sell these nowadays, as they're not different enough from regular tweaked Generations to go to the extra trouble.)

I ran these two through Flutini. The programme suggests that both whistles have very good intonation. I'm not saying that tweaking doesn't improve (or at least change) the sound, but in this case there isn't an intonation issue that needed to be fixed. (I'm working through the theory that tweaking a fipple can change intonation - apologies if no one else is interested!)

[fearfaoin]

Well, I'm exploring a slightly different spin or focus. Maybe more personal than new. But yes, the sun also rises.

I know, and it's perfectly valid. What Señor Gumby
was probably getting at is that your words were
rather reminiscent of what a man under the former
username Peter Laban said ad nauseum some years
agone.

[tin tin]

The question 'what is chiff' is another C&F meme--Jerry's clips above can be used to answer the the question swiftly and definitively.