Any Suggestions for the Bell Note on the Dixon DX203

[Pipe Bender]

I love the Dixon (heavy chunk of brass) whistle but I have a hard time with the "D" with all six holes covered, it is very touchy. Suggestions and comments would be appreciated.

I have the Dixon Aluminum DX006 D & C which I found to be great whistles. When the opportunity came up to get a Dixon Brass DX203 I jumped at it because the write-ups for it made the DX203 sound even more impressive than the DX006.

Unfortunately, I have the same issue with the D bell note and with the low E as well on the DX203. I was able to make some improvement by adding blue Sticky Tack to the cavity below the windway, but it is still not as solid as I would have liked. (If you are not familiar with this tweak, you can do a search on this forum for info.)

[Thomas-Hastay]

Does it "flip" up to the next octave D? Is it a flat or a sharp D? More input! Need More Input!!!

[Pipe Bender]

Yes, mine does flip from low to high D easily and the low D is flat.

[Mr.Nate]

Ahhh (long sye) the woes of owning a Dixon

[Ian Parfitt]

Hi Pipebender

Know what you are talking about. Take a look at Tweaks The Thead. I have relaid how I improved the Bell note on my Dixon Polymer Non-Tunable Low D. The posting is quite long but should provide you with what you are looking to do on your DX203 & DX006.

Ian

PS. If this does not work at least you will not have altered these whistles and you can return them to their current state.

[Pipe Bender]

Just to clarify - my Aluminum DX006 D & C whistles work fine it is only the Dixon Brass DX203 that is not living up to my expectations.

This thread was really intended to seek out what might be a specific fix for the DX203, however, no one has mentioned one. I have read Jerry Freeman's section on tweaking at http://www.chiffandfipple.com/tweak.html several times. Since the sticky tack has always improved the sound on my whistles, I add it as a matter of course to any whistle that has a cavity below the windway.

I have relaid how I improved the Bell note on my Dixon Polymer Non-Tunable Low D.

Thanks Ian, but I believe I have gone past the point of no return on this whistle. BTW your tweak sounds very similar to the tuning "wedge" that Doug Tipple adds to the CPVC flutes he makes. Is there a connection?

Actually a week ago I had tried a little more aggressive tweaking and I might have gotten a very slight bit of an improvement by removing a bit of the blade and beveling the block. Still not the improvement I needed to make this a whistle I would pick up to play. Before starting any tweaking I did notice that the length of the window was very large. Much larger in length and with a different ramp design than my other 3 Dixons - the DX006 D & C and the Dixon Trad. As a matter of fact the window length is longer than any of the other 8 Ds I have.

After reading Jerry Freeman's notes again I decided to try adding a new blade/ramp to see what might happen. All I happened to have around the house to try was the plastic lid from a Maxwell House coffee tin so I simply added a piece of the lid supported by a ball of sticky-tack as a new ramp, but placed far enough into the window to also act as a new blade. With a little trial and error I found a spot that works real fine with a good solid low D note as well as the high octave.

I did find that very slight changes in position make a huge difference in sound. So after contemplating this for a bit I thought that since position is so very critical that it would seem that one needs a releasable product to be able to both position and then test the position (by playing the whistle). Once the "sweet spot" is found then the final gluing medium can be applied.

So my question is does anyone follow a procedure something like this and if so, what glues are you using to accomplish this?

In general what glues have worked on mouthpieces since they appear to be made from a variety of regular plastics, ABS, polymers and Delrin? For example, has anyone tried cyanoacrylates like Pacer Plasti Zap or Poly Zap and their Zap Debonder on mouthpieces?

[EDIT:] I have been reading about the guitar pick tweaks back in 2001 and there is some very good info, but I am still keen on opinions concerning different glues. Any opinions on Loctite® Plastics Bonding System?
[EDIT2:] It would appear that people have used regular super type glues (cyanoacrylates), regular epoxies, Duco cement, and possibly even Elmer's white glue successfully.

[AvienMael]

You got it all wrong.

Plus I'm confused... Your question is about tweaks or solvent cements?

Well, here's some kind of an answer anyway...

It isn't as simple as repositioning the ramp. You add material to it - sometimes on top, sometimes underneath the ramp... refocusing the windway, or raising the bottom of it with a thin laminate... Then re-shaping the ramp, and the size of the window, and sometimes the bevel - to bring everything into proper alignment... and all depending on what type of voicing you are trying to achieve... Your Dixon head is made of ABS plastic. It would require a solvent weld cement, and a similar plastic capable of bonding with it, and it will dissolve the crap out of it in the process if you aren't very, very careful... and it will smell terrible for a very, very long time.

Trying to fix a whistle that ain't broke usually results in a broken whistle.

added - I was also thinking that I found no improvement in any of my Dixons by filling the cavity under the windway. The only thing that improves the sound of a Dixon whistle, is the person playing it.

[WestSeattleDan]

Terrific conversations above and they lead me to a solution that makes my Dixon 2x203 Brass D very playable for me.

I noticed that the Outside Diameter of the Dixon is about the same as my Elf Song "D" whistle which I really like playing.

Problem solved ... Elf Song fipple now does double duty

(1) on the regular Elf Song body of powered coated brass ... and

(2) on the Dixon Brass D x 203 body.

Thanks I now have a Playable solution. (No longer a "D" whistle it is shorter by about an inch)

Now I need some kind of gasket as the Dixon fipple is very loose when slid into the Elf Song body (I doubt it would do any better there but worth a try).

The outside diameter of the Dixon fipple is about 1 mm smaller than the Inside Diameter of the Elf Song body.

[DrPhill]

I am not an expert by any means, but I actually like the whistle as is. I have filled the cavity under the windway with blue tack, and believe it just might improve the whistle. Such beliefs are purely subjective, however, and likely distorted by a feeling of 'ownership' of the solution. It did not (to my ears) do any harm, so I have left it there.

The lowest reach of the whistle is a little more fragile than other whistles I have played but I do not find this much of an impediment to playing. I just back off a little when needed. As a compensation, I find the upper reaches of the whistle much more pleasant. Maybe there is a trade off here - weaker low end, sweeter top end? My own experiments making whistle heads (and, perhaps more tellingly, conversations about such with experts on this forum) seem to indicate that a longer window will favour the higher register over the lower one.

My real problem with the whistle is that it seems loud. If I am playing it at a session, I reckon they can hear it in the toilets of the pub down the street. If I am playing it at home my ears ring after a while.

Just my tuppence.......

[AvienMael]

Actually, a body with a thicker wall and a narrower bore, coupled with a head that is capable of supporting a larger bore, will also favor the higher register - which I think is more the case with the DX203. A longer window (as relates to the whistle length-wise) can also favor the upper register, but this is because when you move the blown edge further from the windway exit, it requires more air overall to produce a tone, which makes it more prone to wanting to play in the upper register.

The idea in tweaking some whistles, is to actually shorten the window, while also changing the angle of the blown edge, and it's alignment with the floor of the windway to keep the air requirement about the same, thus optimizing the way the head splits the airstream, and reducing the resulting turbulence that is created as air enters the tube. The alignment between the blown edge and the bottom of the windway floor (think of this in terms of vertical elevation) ultimately has the greatest impact on balancing the two octaves - especially with regard to the tone of the whistle. A narrower window (as relates to the whistle width-wise) produces a more focused airstream, but will usually have lower air requirements (thus, it is better-suited to a narrower bore). It can give the whistle a sweeter, more pure sound through both registers, at the expense of overall volume. - Although I have an older sweetheart whistle which completely defies this point on narrow windway -vs.- volume that I have just stated, but this is a conical bore wooden whistle. To go into that would only confuse the matter.

One of the things I am most concerned with when I alter (or make) a whistle, is the difference in tone (or overall sound) between the upper and lower octaves. Having a strong low end and a thin, shrill, and/or raspy high end is no good. Having a sweet upper end that you can really push and a weak bottom end that is overly prone to flipping is no good. In other words, I don't like a whistle that requires a major change in breath control from one octave to another, or that produces a radically different sound (tone) from one octave to the other. Another thing I am equally concerned with is cleaning up any random "ghost harmonics", squeaks, squawks, and undertones.

...and honestly, I haven't found any of these things to be a problem on any of the Dixon whistles I've had. They have breath requirements that are somewhat characteristic to them, IMO... So did the older Copelands - but nobody rushes to "fix" those, do they?

My own opinion on the DX203 is that it's a fine whistle in it's own right. The balance of the whistle when holding it is goofy. I don't like the thin ABS head on the heavy brass body. I think I would have preferred the whistle to have been constructed with a delrin head instead. - And yes, it is loud - it was made that way intentionally.

[DrPhill]

Thanks AvienMael - some more observations to add to my collection of purloined whistle-making-wisdom.

My own opinion on the DX203 is that it's a fine whistle in it's own right. The balance of the whistle when holding it is goofy. I don't like the thin ABS head on the heavy brass body. I think I would have preferred the whistle to have been constructed with a delrin head instead. - And yes, it is loud - it was made that way intentionally.

Yep, a light head on a heavy body does seem odd. But mostly when playing it I don't notice the physical balance. Nor, actually, am I particularly aware of the lighter touch needed for the low end - it just seems to happen.

I would have like the whistle with a brass head, myself. It would take a while to warm up, but would be nigh-on indestructible.

[Pipe Bender]

I haven't found any of these things to be a problem on any of the Dixon whistles I've had. They have breath requirements that are somewhat characteristic to them

OK, maybe I have been overcritical of the DX203. The design and write-ups of the Aluminum DX006 and the Brass DX203 are generally about the same and the DX006 D & C have been a pair of my favourite whistles. My expectations were fueled as well by some very favourable vendor comments on the DX203: "..... following in the footsteps of the famous Dixon Aluminium bodied whistles. ..... This High D is astonishing. ...... It has some kick and projects a more rounded sound than its aluminium stable mate." I assumed kick and projection would have also applied to the low D note. I should have been smarter in regards to sales talk. And there were few if any reviews on the DX203 out there. (And just to clarify, the quoted comments above were made by another retailer not by Tony Dixon.)


So back to making what I have better since I've passed the point of no return.

AvienMael - I have done a lot of reading going right back to 2001 on tweaking the blade/ramp and I must say your explanation of what makes it "tick" is one of the clearest and most concise.

Today I am making a trip over to our local music store to pick up a few of the now famous Jim Dunlop Tortex Red 0.50mm guitar picks (in the eyes of a whistle tweaker anyway) and also to the hobby shop to see if they have a bottle of Super Glue Plastix.

[Pipe Bender]

I have my permanent adhesive in hand, but I haven't been able to find a good happy medium between the lower and upper octaves this time through so I "suspended operations". One thing I did notice on this whistle (DX203), unlike the inexpensive whistles, is that there is no large gap between the floor of the windway and the bottom of the blade. This large gap on the inexpensive whistles may in fact be why many inexpensive whistles are able to be tweaked so successfully.

My statement "point of no return" implied I was ready to bond a new blade/ramp into place. I did not cut away the ramp so this whistle still plays better than when I first received it. So I am now thinking I should try Ian's "wedge" tweak.

Take a look at Tweaks The Thead. I have relaid how I improved the Bell note on my Dixon Polymer Non-Tunable Low D.

Here is Ian's tweak:
"I at first managed to improved the strength of the bottom 4 notes by inserting a wedge consisting of standard 3/4" plastic water pipe. The wedge is 3 and 3/4inches long, 5/8" one end and zero inches the other. This was placed in the bottom of the whistle with zero inch end in line with beginning edge of the bottom G tone hole and the 5/8" end just past the bottom edge of the bottom D tone hole. This improved the lower register so that all the notes in the first octave are about the same strength."

[EDIT:]

Terrific conversations above and they lead me to a solution that makes my Dixon 2x203 Brass D very playable for me.

Just to clarify things a bit. The DX203 is a playable whistle under normal circumstances, however, I stupidly purchased it thinking it was a cut above the DX006 - it's not. Having said this, however, it is a perfectly fine whistle. I am not much of a whistle player, but I am a "detail" person spending the first half of my work life doing marine geophysics and the second half as a university Registrar. Put the DX203 aside for now and I am certain that later you will find that it is a good whistle.

This is the basis of WhOA - always looking for something better. Although I must say a Burke is pretty hard to beat.

[Indie]

When I first bought the heavy duty Dixon I was disappointed, too. In fact, I dismissed it as "too heavy" and put it away. I planned to sell it at some point. But now it's one of my favorites. You do have to be careful not to blow too hard on the lowest notes. But I find it very easy to adjust to now. The sound is fantastic. Very quick response. The brass has tarnished, however. Since I'm keeping it, I don't mind.

[Pipe Bender]

Ian Parfitt wrote:
Take a look at Tweaks The Thead. I have relaid how I improved the Bell note on my Dixon Polymer Non-Tunable Low D.
Here is Ian's tweak:
"I at first managed to improved the strength of the bottom 4 notes by inserting a wedge consisting of standard 3/4" plastic water pipe. The wedge is 3 and 3/4inches long, 5/8" one end and zero inches the other. This was placed in the bottom of the whistle with zero inch end in line with beginning edge of the bottom G tone hole and the 5/8" end just past the bottom edge of the bottom D tone hole. This improved the lower register so that all the notes in the first octave are about the same strength."

Ian, I've been looking and thinking what I might have around the house that I could use as a wedge for the DX203 and have reread your tweak a few times when I noticed that the measurement you give for the your low whistle wedge is 3 3/4 inches in length from the bottom of the G hole to the bottom of the D hole. Did you mean to say 5 and 3/4 inches because when I measured my 5 low D whistles all are over 5 inches for this distance?