Warm winter wood playing

[argofoto]

I was wondering, if I keep my blackwood whistle in my pockets, it will stay warm due to body heat, then be playable in indoor temperatures. Now, I haven't had as much condensation as when it was on the table throughout the day. The whistle is warmer. Now, I have not taken it further than this but I was wondering if I walk out into the 40 degree (Fahrenheit) weather, with the whistle in my pocket, and play lightly, then I feel there should not be any issues, such as cracking. Anyone try this? I just really really love my Fred Rose whistle more than anything, and hate the taste of plastic on my Feadog (my "practice" whistle). Otherwise, I was thinking of a pocket TWZ brass whistle but I can't afford it just yet, maybe a Clark whistle though it has the wood fipple.... And I can't afford my Rosie cracking either!

The alternative is to move somewhere with warm weather all year round

[MTGuru]

The alternative is to move somewhere with warm weather all year round

[Loren]

Now, I have not taken it further than this but I was wondering if I walk out into the 40 degree (Fahrenheit) weather, with the whistle in my pocket, and play lightly, then I feel there should not be any issues, such as cracking. Anyone try this?

The risk of a wooden whistle cracking if you do this is high.

"Hear me now und believe me later." - Hans und Franz

[argofoto]

The alternative is to move somewhere with warm weather all year round

California dreaming, on such a winter's day!

It is not even snowing here! Just cold and dry as a witch's tit!

[ecohawk]

Now, I have not taken it further than this but I was wondering if I walk out into the 40 degree (Fahrenheit) weather, with the whistle in my pocket, and play lightly, then I feel there should not be any issues, such as cracking. Anyone try this?

The risk of a wooden whistle cracking if you do this is high.

With all due respect to a long time C&F member, from whom I've learned quite a lot, the following is quoted directly from Terry McGee's website:

The rumour is that as you dash from your car to your house in winter, your wooden flute - in its case, stuffed into your arctic-rated sleeping bag and clutched to your body - will nonetheless spontaneously fragment into a thousand pieces, perforating your rib cage with shrapnel and causing a lingering and horrible death. Or that if you dare breathe one note into your flute before it has been warmed to body heat, you will be rewarded with a loud cracking sound, almost drowned out by the sound of the nearest repairer's cash register. Relax, it's all rubbish.

And to prove it, I carried out an experiment where I put a flute head into the oven and then into the freezer, and after both ordeals played it immediately, entirely without damage (to me or the flute).

There's more on this at Terry's site if you need it.

I live in San Francisco (California Dreamin' indeed) where the temperature doesn't vary as much as in other places, but I travel a lot. I often carry a Glen Schultz blackwood D, a Busman boxwood/maple D+ and a Parks Bb with me when traveling. Of course the Parks is PVC but I've played them all right out of my pocket in temps as low as 13F with no ill effect. I've been doing this for years.

Now changes in humidity are a different story but you're oiling your whistle a couple of times a year and you wipe it out regularly right? Then this won't be a problem either.

ecohawk

[Feadoggie]

This is a subject that can result in a lot of varied opinions. I think it depends a lot on the particular piece of timber involved. Sad part of that is that you usually won't find out if your blackwood is a candidate for cracking until it cracks.

I live in the Philadelphia region - gigged in the city and surrounding suburbs for many years. I hated playing out around the holidays with my wooden instruments. I lost/damaged a few to the capricious nature of nature going from car to the stage in a short period. Some incidents were quite memorable and were accompanied by stunning visual and audio effects. So do what you want and what you think is best for you.

Feadoggie

[Magickdancer]

I suppose you could keep a little portable hand warmer around for situations like the ones described:

http://www.backcountryedge.com/grabber-hand-warmer.aspx

Years ago, I had one that was reusable, but I haven't seen them in a long time.

[Cayden]

Argofoto,

As the owner of a Fred Rose Blackwood D, I know how much I enjoy that particular whistle. Would I take a gamble on having it crack over what might be completely preventable circumstances? NOT!!! I think like Feadoggie said, there are individual pieces of blackwood that might have some stability issues that are unseen and would not be prone to cracking until subjected to certain stressors such as variations in temperature or humidity that exceed the limits for that given piece of wood. That same piece of wood might never have a problem until pushed to or beyond those limits.

So, ask yourself why you "need" to create that risk for your Fred Rose D. The answer is easy. You don't. Take the alternative route and play another whistle outdoors and save your Rose.

Mind you, I am not challenging what anyone is saying about an experiment conducted on one flute. However, a scientific conclusion cannot be claimed based on the results of a small sampling under varying and uncontrolled environmental factors.

I just would not risk my own Fred Rose D when there are alternatives available.

Cayden

[Tonehole]

I was wondering, if I keep my blackwood whistle in my pockets, it will stay warm due to body heat, then be playable in indoor temperatures. Now, I haven't had as much condensation as when it was on the table throughout the day. The whistle is warmer. Now, I have not taken it further than this but I was wondering if I walk out into the 40 degree (Fahrenheit) weather, with the whistle in my pocket, and play lightly, then I feel there should not be any issues, such as cracking.

It's amazing if you can keep a blackwood whistle in your pocket. I tend to sit down and forget things like that and either end up damaging it/myself or giving the impression to others that I'm happy to see them.

[Loren]

Now, I have not taken it further than this but I was wondering if I walk out into the 40 degree (Fahrenheit) weather, with the whistle in my pocket, and play lightly, then I feel there should not be any issues, such as cracking. Anyone try this?

The risk of a wooden whistle cracking if you do this is high.

With all due respect to a long time C&F member, from whom I've learned quite a lot, the following is quoted directly from Terry McGee's website:

The rumour is that as you dash from your car to your house in winter, your wooden flute - in its case, stuffed into your arctic-rated sleeping bag and clutched to your body - will nonetheless spontaneously fragment into a thousand pieces, perforating your rib cage with shrapnel and causing a lingering and horrible death. Or that if you dare breathe one note into your flute before it has been warmed to body heat, you will be rewarded with a loud cracking sound, almost drowned out by the sound of the nearest repairer's cash register. Relax, it's all rubbish.

And to prove it, I carried out an experiment where I put a flute head into the oven and then into the freezer, and after both ordeals played it immediately, entirely without damage (to me or the flute).

There's more on this at Terry's site if you need it.

Much as I respect Terry, his experiments were far from conclusive, and certainly those of us who live here in the Northeastern United States, the Rockies and the Great Lakes Regions have seen the results of radical changes in temperature on flutes. That is to say cracks. Likely a combination of less than optimally humidified wood plus radical temperature differential (Cold flute and hot breath) that causes the cracks.

Regardless, Flutes and Whistles are different animals as the stresses exerted on the headjoint and surrounding areas are rather different from flutes to Whistles due to the design and construction differences. Also, the wood tends to be thinner on whistles. And then you have the right angle cuts in the wood at the labium/wall juncture, which is a significant structural weak point if stress builds up in the wood. So, Terry's experiments, even if they were conclusive, which they are not, wouldn't directly apply to fipple flutes.

Can I say for certain that a person's wooden whistle will crack if played outside on a cold day? Of course not, but it does happen to some of these instruments under such conditions. Completely the OP's call on what he chooses to do with his property. Seems to me though that if you really love a particular instrument, you'd do your best to take care of it. However I've repaired hundreds of cracked instruments that were the result of people doing stupid/risky sh#t with their instruments, so I should know better than to think folks would exercise common sense, let alone care and caution. I mean why would you ever put your flute or whistle down on a chair or sofa And yet plenty of people do, and then they or someone else sit on them. Seen lots of those. Odd thing is, if I did an experiment where I took a flute headjoint and set it on a chair for an hour and then picked it up and played it, it probably wouldn't explode into a million pieces . However that wouldn't prove that putting your flute on a chair isn't risky (Not taking a jab at Terry with that, just having a bit of fun and making a point.)

Loren

[Cayden]

Argofoto,
Much as Loren implies in his post, I too am not looking to dispute what Terry states regarding this issue. However, we all know that for a scientific conclusion to be reached, any experiment needs to be replicable when conducted using the same methods and conditions. As well, a sampling made on one or two instruments would be far from conclusive. There are just way too many variables involved here to reach any kind of scientific conclusion. Certainly the anecdotal information by folks that see and repair hundreds of instruments like both Terry and Loren are valuable indicators as to what such instruments might tolerate, but even that may vary widely depending on regional environmental conditions such as those pointed out by Loren. His analogy regarding not leaving a flute or whistle on a chair is a point well taken, it only takes that one completely preventable incident to ruin a really great and cherished instrument.

Cayden

[maki]

Why not buy and use a pocket whistle. Many can be had for not much money.
There is a possiblity of damaging your prized Rose, so why risk it?
My best whistles never leave the house.

Parks, O'Brien, Hoover, Freeman's Clare, or an un tweaked Clare, just to name a few.
I carry an old Susato Kildare that I bought used, that baby is rugged!

[argofoto]

I've heard of the TWZ pocket brass but I haven't seen any for sale in this hemisphere... I figure a practice whistle, like my regular Clarke will work. I just got one and I actually like it though it takes getting used to... At least I don't taste the plastic anymore.

Best solution is to move somewhere warm all year round and not arid!!! Any ideas where?

[brewerpaul]

40 doesn't strike me as especially cold and although I don't have any evidence I don't believe it should be a problem.
Hmmm...just so happens the temperature outside here is 39F-- I may risk one of my older wooden whistles in some research when I go out for a walk later.
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Update with results of a very unscientific study, with only one test subject.
I wrapped one of my old, "factory seconds" Blackwood whistles in a cotton bandana, put it in my front pants pocket and went out walking.
About 45 min later I stopped by the side of Barney Pond, took out the whistle and played for about 15 minutes,playing a variety of my favorite tunes. Condensed breath moisture began dripping from the whistle pretty quickly but the whistle did not clog during the whole 15 minutes, which surprised me. I even stopped playing for several minutes until the whistle's metal head fitting got cold and then resumed playing with no clogging noted. By the end of the "session" the whistle was completely intact. The piece of Blackwood that this whistle was made from came to me with a thin crack which I filled with cyanoacrylate before working the wood. This repair remained intact. After playing, I swabbed the whistle out with the bandana, wrapped it and took it home in my pocket where it arrived still intact.
This doesn't really prove anything of course. I wouldn't recommend playing outdoors in really cold weather. Much colder than this would probably make your fingers too cold to play quickly anyway. Once in a while, for a short period of time, playing like this is probably OK. I have to admit that looking out over the frozen pond with a very light flurry of snow falling, playing was kinda nice.