I am certainly displaying my ignorance here but could you elaborate?
The advice I have read (here, other sites, Larsen and elsewhere) or gotten in person from live real Irish flute players from Ireland has NOT emphasized the glottal stop as “the heart” of Irish flute playing.
I’m a very inexperienced player (two years on flute, a bit more on whistle) If I am missing “the heart” of playing, I’d like to fix that immediately.
This isn’t a jab, but a serious concern and question.
This is all very subjective, obviously. I don’t think of the glottal stop as the “heart” of ITM, either. But I do try to use it in addition to some tonguing and (primarily) finger-based ornamentation like cuts, rolls, etc… All are valid tools that players can use in their own unique ways to achieve what it is they do. FWIW, I’m a firm believer in the “there is no right way” philosophy of folk music.
Here’s what Seamus Egan says about glottal stopping in the Mad for Trad flute tutorial:
Glottal Stopping:
You will notice that as each note is played, it sounds “seperated” from the previous note. This is achieved by making a guttural " K" sound at the back of the throat. The glottal stop is helpful in creating an overall clarity in flute music; rather than all the notes flowing into one another, the guttural “K” sound gives definition to some of the notes. As you proceed through the tutorial, you will notice the importance of this technique, particularly in the area of ornamentation. It will be helpful to get used to it now.
When he demonstrates this, I don’t really hear an audible “K” sound. I’m not saying this is the final word on this, just what one good player has to say about it.
Yes, just an endless set of variations on “the wrong way” it seems.
Regards,
Harry.
Funny, I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately (I can hear Caroluna laughing already …)
I don’t know about the “heart”, but I think it’s definitely a vital organ, esp. for certain styles of playing. Some of the more “internally rhythmic” things like flings and the big “chugga-chugga” tunes seem to really come alive with a good combination of pulse and glottal articulation; it’s more percussive and foot-stomping.
And then there are some tighter lighter tunes and settings, and treatments thereof seem to benefit from the more delicate approach of tonguing.
But basically, I think it’s good to be able to do both, often within the same tune. It’s whatever the passage, style, and setting demand in terms of emphasis (or lack thereof).
And now The Long Version … (complete with bonus maunderings!)
I’ve asked several serious players about it over the last few years, and while the general bias one way or another seems to be personal, I think most good players can deploy both as needed. Louise Mulcahy told me she uses tonguing when playing the whistle – makes sense, the crispness is appropriate, esp. to her style – but tends to use the glottal approach on the flute – again, that aligns with her style. Then, I listen to someone like Dave Sheridan or Paul Smyth, who seem to have a more crisp approach (And then there’s Harry … well Harry’s a genius who seems to be able to do both simultaneously!) overall, and it seems tonguing’s a little more prevalent in their playing.
After using glottals almost exclusively over the last year or so, I’m now trying more tongued articulation as well. (At first I stayed away from it entirely because I was warned that my tonguing was one of the things that would show me up as a classical player almost as fast as diaphragm vibrato …)
FWIW, I’ve run into Rob’s vocalization issue as well – and once my larynx starts buzzing, it’s hard to stop. (My classical teachers would have COWS!)
Anyway, bottom line I go back to the classic John Skelton “horses for courses” philosophy. I’m trying to learn to use both, because it seems like there’s a place for each – it just depends on what you’re trying to convey and what serves the tune best.
'Cos there are times when a nice feathery “dah” or crisp “tah” is just more appropriate than a “gah”, yah knah? 
Well, you see how easy it is to get confused on this subject.
Maybe we can narrow this thread to a discussion of what exactly a glottal stop is, rather than when it should be used?
I’m trying to play Irish trad music, and I have never played a wind instrument, so I don’t suffer from trying to tongue every note like a classical player. I do know what Irish music should sound like (7 years of fiddle playing), so I won’t be overusing any ornaments, fingerwise or breathwise. And, yes, I have the Mad for Trad CD-Rom where Seamus Egan says he articulates two of the same notes in a tune by using the glottal stop. I also don’t hear a “K” or “Kuh” sound when he’s doing it… thus my bringing this whole topic up.
So, one person said the glottal stop was what your throat does in between “Uh” and “Oh.” But when I try this I only hear an Uh, then an Oh. Two syllables. I don’t hear anything in between! What am I missing here?
In a word, your larynx buzzes (bad!, bad!, bad!) BECAUSE you have been using throaty glottals, not from “proper” tonguing. Moreover, anyone to accuse you of “classical” tonguing is an amatuer, and certainly not one worth paying attention to. Tonguing, after all, is a highly skilled, and hard earned, discipline which, in terms of articulation, appears to be an ultimate flute articulation form.
If anybody could say otherwise, then, please, put it here.
By the way, thanks for the “Ta-ka-ta” post Sporting Pitchfork! That really helps with tonguing triplets!
So, one person said the glottal stop was what your throat does in between “Uh” and “Oh.” But when I try this I only hear an Uh, then an Oh. Two syllables. I don’t hear anything in between! What am I missing here?
What does your throat do to separate the “uh” from the “oh?” How do you make it come out “uh-oh” instead of “uhoh?” The little closure in your throat that separates the sounds is a glottal stop.
FWIW I’ve found the “throat-tuning” technique to be a big help in getting people to stop vocalizing. Just spend a few minutes playing long tones and singing the pitch you’re playing at the same time. Get it as in tune as you can. It’ll really smooth you out and open you up.
Tuu-kuu-tuu, or perhaps tu-ku-tu, rapidly, as required.
Think of the vowels “uu” as pronounced more as the “oo” in a word such as “soon”, as with the tongue held high.
I am new to this site and don’t know you, but I have been playing ITM for 25 years. If you are not aware, tonguing is generally (and I stress GENERALLY) not favored by ITM flute players. It ruins the flow of the music and makes Irish articulation muddy. I say “Irish” articulation, because in ITM the articulation is as much ornamental as functional. It can be in other musical forms, as well, but generally not in the way the Irish employ it. I played classical music on a Boehm flute for over ten years before I started ITM on a wooden flute, so I am not biased or uninformed.
Regarding glottal stops, many of the suggestions for accomplishing this are fine, in that they provide a tool for making the sound, but put simply, it is coughing into the instrument to get the note started. I find it is best not to constrict the throat or pronounce a letter of the alphabet, but rather cough as you would if you were breathing smoke. It sort of erupts from your stomach rather than from the throat. How subtle or harsh the cough depends on the emphasis desired. The idea is to get a clean start to the note, but there should not be a distinct “kuh” sound, IMO.
In the first place, throat induced glottal stops are a horror, period, as anything so glottal directly impedes air flow, in the worst way, and as a direct contradiction to superior flute technique.
In the second place, it matters not at all whether you know me or not, as music simply is music, ITM notwithstanding.
Moreover, there is no finer, and more articulate, articulation than tonguing, glottal stops be gone!!
Moreover, if Irish music must be subject to such inferior technique as glottal stops, then perhaps even Irish flute playing could stand improvement.
I have more than 44 years of flute training.
Yikes, wouldn’t it have been easier just to do your homework in the first place? 
Ooops, I see the need for some clarification … my larynx buzzes on glottals, not tonguing*, and it usually happens when I’m pushing too hard while doing it. This often occurs when I’m trying to play very loudly; that’s one of my seriously bad habits I’m trying to fix. Awareness is the first step, right? 
Further clarification … I’m messing with all this is in addition to finger articulation, which I did exclusively for a long time before incorporating glottals.
Final, final clarification – I probably should have been clearer in my description of the tonguing re: the “classical” tag – I’m talking about the very precise, pointed staccato tonguing that classical flute players sometimes do. Seems like ITM tonguing is just a touch more legato in most cases, though again I refer to some of the guys like Paul Smyth and Dave Sheridan who are pretty darned crisp sometimes …
The person who told me to watch out for said classical tonguing was John Skelton; so far it’s been pretty good advice 
– though I’ve had to go down some twisty wrong paths and make lots of mistakes and listen a LOT for it to finally start making sense … (at least I think it’s starting to make sense to me, even if I’m not making it to anyone else. sorry!)
You know, this really is like dancing about architecture, isn’t it?
Anyway, hope that doesn’t muddy things further!
Speaking of splitting hairs … there are so many shades of articulation, from “tuhs” to “guhs” to “luhs” to … but I’m wondering if we’re getting tangled in our semantic shorts on the glottal thing.
i.e., There’s also the notion of a pulse or push from the diaphragm (esp. at the start of a note or on a beat); because this often happens in tandem with some sort of articulation (fingered, tongued, or throated), could the distinction between the two be getting blurred?
OK, OK, I’ll go away now. 
Regarding glottal stops, many of the suggestions for accomplishing this are fine, in that they provide a tool for making the sound, but put simply, it is coughing into the instrument to get the note started. I find it is best not to constrict the throat or pronounce a letter of the alphabet, but rather cough as you would if you were breathing smoke. It sort of erupts from your stomach rather than from the throat. How subtle or harsh the cough depends on the emphasis desired. The idea is to get a clean start to the note, but there should not be a distinct “kuh” sound, IMO
Thank you. This explanation made a lot of sense.
Cork, you are coming across with a superior attitude that is totally unwarranted. Please try to be more polite, okay? I mentioned I did not know you because you have many posts, and being new, I don’t know what you know or don’t know, and did not want to insult you by telling you things most members might realize you are already aware of.
Regarding what you have said about tonguing, I can only say that you are very, very wrong. This is not a matter of debate. Pure and simple, tonguing is not a mainstay of Irish articulation, whether or not you approve of that fact. I am astonished you do not know this, or if you do, why you would be making this argument.
The technique I describe is covered in Grey Larsen’s book, which is heartily endorsed by no less than Matt Molloy. If you wish to take your argument to them, be my guest, but I don’t fancy your chances.
Lighten up, my friend. The standards for Irish flute playing were firmly established long before you came along, and will survive your slings and arrows.
Cheers.
Naaah… this topic line is too easy a kill for gutter-crawling… I’ll keep it above the board.
I find that tongueing against the roof of my mouth makes less noise than doing it against the lips. You can also try using a glottal stop (try saying “coo coo coo” and you’ll see what I mean). You may be building up too much pressure behind your tongue also… remember not to let go with a burst of air, simply resume the air flow.
Dave
Who are you?