You can do it! Just remember little Seamus at age 2 or whenever it was he mastered them …
I see his fingers are boucing a litttle, very little
One thing to try is, if you can stop the frames while you are watching
and see it very very slowly. Then, you have to try to make your fingers
copy what you see. Keep trying.
There are some excellent articles for download at Grey Larson’s
website (I forget the address but I’m sure its here somewhere!)
and a couple of them deal with how to finger ornaments. He has
some interesting ways of thinking about them which might help.
Good luck you can do it!
Lesl
…though I slowed down the sound, I coul not figer it out…
Well, I recently ordered Larson’s book, let me see if he gives some hints…
Anyway, thank you, I will see his website for that!
Apropos “Rockstro” or however that is spelled,
do you reckon this is the kind of grip Seamus Egan is using?
Watching their live video it seems like it, but I am not sure whether there exists any “in-betweens”.
Do many people use the straight, “pipe-like” or “low-whistle-like” grip?
I am just starting w/the flute, and it seems the rockstro grip may be the best way to hold the thing. I am still not sure. But then the problem of moving one’s fingers suddenly gets a lot bigger… <:-(
Especially the left index finger is trapped in a very awkward position. I almost can’t move it at all..
Any thoughts or tips? (beyond “practice, practice, practice”… E.g. How to practice?)
ATB,
E. 
Tchie,
I think you should set up a flute lesson with a good teacher and bring a
list of your questions. Don’t forget to ask how to practice the different
techniques so that you can master them. Also, take a tape recorder and
see if they will let you tape the lesson. You will get great things to work
on and learn how to practice the things you want to learn. There’s really
nothing better than someone showing you in person.
Even if its difficult to arrange, and you have to travel some distance for
this, it will be worth it.
Keep us posted on your progress, I’m sure everyone is hoping to hear
how you progress, since we all know what it is like!
Lesl
Seamus Egan uses piper’s grip (flat fingers). I doubt Rockstro would accomodate that unless you had monstrously long fingers and a disproportionately short thumb.
Rockstro is an excellent way to hold and balance a flute if you are a fingerpad player, however. I use it myself. It allowed me to play the flute when I used to have a kind of arthritis in my hands. The arthritis is much better now–I want to say “gone” but know better–but I still use Rockstro as it makes holding even very heavy flutes comfortable.
–James
I learned how to bounce when I bought the Seamus Egan tutorial. I’d heard it before, but never had anyone show it or explain it in a book.
Think about bringing your finger straight down through your flute, when it hits, let it bounce. Your finger must be relaxed but also move firmly. After you try it slowly, don’t think about lifting your finger (for the bounce) while you’re doing it, that will slow it down. The bounce happens immediately after the finger hits for the melody note.
From G to F
xxxooo - Melody note before, always above the next note
xxxxoo - Next melody note played in it’s normal place
xxxooo - Start of Bounce, immediately after the previous note
xxxxoo - End of bounce
I use bounces frequently, especially from ‘g’ to ‘e’, and ‘f’ to ‘e’. There’s an embellishment I don’t know the name of that I hear players use. It’s like going from a ‘g’ to an ‘f’ with an ‘e’ tap, only you bounce at the same time as the tap.
Movement without a name
xxxooo - Melody note
xxxxxo - Note being bounced on
xxxoxo - Bounce
xxxxxo - Bounced note
xxxxoo - Melody note
Another cool one is this, going from a ‘c nat’ to a vented ‘middle d’. If you use the first fingering, you’re only moving one finger and you get this complex sounding movement.
oxxoxx or oxxooo - Melody note
oxxxxx - Note being bounce on
oxxoxx - Bounce
oxxxxx - End of bounce Back to note
If someone will host a sound file I can record some bounce stuff.
Sincerely,
George Grasso
Soquel, CA
Well, if you have a look at these screenshots from the “Solas Live” DVD:
http://www.tomsing.com/toc/mp3/seamus.jpg
http://www.tomsing.com/toc/mp3/seamus2.jpg
http://www.tomsing.com/toc/mp3/seamus3.jpg
I got the impression this would be the so-called “Rockstro” grip; from this page:
http://www.flutesite.com/posture_&_grip.htm
If Seamus Egan is using piper’s grip, then would anyone be so kind as to lead me to some good explanation of what that is? Pictures would give a nice pointer 
Thanks and best regards,
Eivind
Oh,
come on guys. Nobody wants to shed some light here?
They all went out at the same time?
Seamus’ grip is definitely not piper’s grip. I have his tutorial too and he uses something like a Rockstro/classical style grip. If you wanna see pictures of flute players doing piper’s grip, go take a look at some video clips of Michael McGoldrick, or the front cover of John Wynne’s debute solo album, or the back cover of Paul McGratten’s 2nd CD.
I think Seamus Egan kind of has his own grip. The left hand seems to be a pretty standard Rockstro-type grip. The right hand, however, is something else. He does keep his fingers very straight, but I’m pretty sure he uses the pads of his fingers. I have no idea how he does it and still has his thumb anywhere near the flute. Must have funny-shaped hands or something. It’s really something to see in concert, though – man do those fingers move fast!
Steven
From what I’ve seen, Seamus has his own half & half- style. Which is why I think it’s another case of whatever works depending on your hand size, finger length, flute hole size, barrel weight, Heisenberg’s Uncertainty principle or whatever … I’ve noticed that my left hand generally hangs out somewhere between classical and piper’s, but since I’ve gone Pratten my right hand is more flat-fingered. Sometimes I use my fingerpads … but overall, I like the piper’s a LOT more for bounces (plus slides & shading notes); I find keeping my fingers relatively flat helps a lot there.
IMO, the most important thing is to hold the flute in a way that causes the least tension, because otherwise you’ll hurt yourself or at best, your playing will be all “crunchy” & mechanical-sounding (this also applies to your embouchure – it’s good to do a self-check regularly and make sure you’re not pushing too hard against your lower jaw – or letting the flute drift off it, either).
It’s a funny thing, this combination of strength/tension & balance/relaxation, but it seems to be THE most important thing, as with so many other disciplines like tennis, golf, even horsey stuff like dressage … making something seem effortless takes a LOT of work!
Oh, and one other thing: never underestimate the value of your right thumb. The better you balance the flute on that, the easier your left-hand work is.
I have the MadForTrad flute tutor and watched a couple of his videos on that this morning. I agree he seems to use a grip all his own, his right hand is definitely flat-fingered but seems too far back to be true piper’s grip, looks like still mainly using fingerpads, left hand is definitely fingerpad but left wrist is bent at a sharp angle which argues against Rockstro, where you want your wrists as straight as you can keep them.
Considering the way he plays, I’d say his grip definitely works well for him.
You do have to find a way that works for you, rather it has a name or not. I started using Rockstro several years ago because my hands were hurting when I’d play, at the time I didn’t realize the grip I was evolving toward was Rockstro…didn’t know, didn’t care, just knew that it worked for me.
–James
Well,
I checked out that Wynne album cover, here:
http://www.john-wynne.com/albumlaunch.htm
And I definitely see the difference. The first days of owning a flute (just some weeks ago 
, I of course experimented a bit with finding a way to hold it. I still do it to some extent, but I have sort of landed on what may be some “hybrid” grip with bent left-hand fingers (like Rockstro), and pretty flat right-hand fingers. It feels good, though it is very difficult to move the LH fingers.
In the beginning, I kinda ditched this grip since I almost could not move the LH at all… but with a day or two of practice I realized it would become better. I just dont know HOW much better it will get
Moving the 2nd (index) finger and the 3rd finger is a real pain. In particular the 2nd, as the fleshy part of where it is connected to the palm supports the flute. So the finger gets “crooked” in a very awkward position. And it doesn’t at all seems to lend itself to any snappy motion…that’s SOOO much easier with flat fingers.
I know what you are likely to respond (“practice, practice, pra…”), but besides that; are there any particular tips to give, things to experiment with to perhaps free those fingers a little and allow them to ease up?
Oh, and thanks for blowing the dust off this thread again
E.
I tried the finger bounce after watching Seamus’ CD, and I found the least fleshy parts of the finger produce a sound that is closer to Seamus’ .
I usually play with my finger pads, but if I need a more stacatto effect I extend my fingers a little, and hit the hole with the lower part of the pad, close to the joint. This produces a much crisper sound, and it is easier to get a short, fast bounce.
I haven’t read much about finger articulation here. Does anyone else change their finger style to suit the music?
Mukade,
I’ll be answering questions about finger ornamentation in 5 years or so. Meanwhile, I’m ordering the Egan tutorial…
Thanks for another interesting thread, guys!
E.
BTW, for those of you who dont have the Solas live DVD, it’s highly recommended…a couple of the sets they play there are worth the price of the entire disc alone :d
I don’t think John Wynne’s grip is one I’d like to have. It’s not the style of grip that is likely to be recomended by a teacher. He holds his flute with pipers grip and he often has the flute head resting on his right shoulder (he’s a leftie player). It works for him, but if I were to play like that, I’d have a really sour neck after just 15 minutes of playing. Check out the video clips at http://www.custysmusic.com/mall/CustysTraditionalMusicShop/in_session.htm . You’ll find John to the left if you scroll down a bit. Really awkward grip, but terrific playing.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record …
(scratch, scratch, fzzzzzzztttt)
… Repositioning my RH thumb was, and continues to be (because I forget from time to time), a huge epiphany for me. It’s amazing how much having your right thumb in the place that best suits your flute’s weight & balance can free up your left hand.
OK, sorry, but I think this is a biggie that rarely, if ever, gets covered and it’s made a huge difference in my LH agility, esp. for nasty things like C rolls. Not to mention reducing that insidious desire to drop the flute onto my shoulder when I’m tired.