For what it’s worth, I recently wrote to someone on CnF with an informal impression of my Gary Somers “Boehm” cylinderical flute:
“The tone of his keyless concert (“Boehm”) type flute is “brighter”, clearer than the softer, more romantic, lyrical tone you’d expect of the keyless “Irish” flute. You don’t get the same “fat sound” you mention. But it is loud, so far as I can tell without playing it with other flutes. It’s sound is very pleasant and it covers two and a half octaves easily. I find it quick and easy to play folk, classical and Irish tunes on it. It’s embouchure is large and modern, “elliptical”; what I call an elongated oval. It’s designed to encourage ease of play and will produce all the subtleties your mastery allows, in my view. I think it’s a keeper of a flute that will deliver more and more as one progresses. It’s price can only go up by several hundred per cent eventually.”
I particularly like it because it’s a pick-up-and-go/play flute. It doesn’t have to be molly coddled with oils and temperature concerns. It does need warming up with a few lungfuls of air though.
Well, this is an issue on which I would be glad to be mistaken.
I’ve played the Copley, forbes, owned two Seeries, but not the
Shannon or the Somers. Look forward to trying them.
Wooden flutes are easier to hold than Delrin flutes. Wooden flutes are a bit lighter and seem better balanced. They don’t have the slippery, greasy feel of Delrin flutes.
Wooden flutes don’t need to be “molly coddled with oils and temperature concerns.” You just have to be aware of their vulnerabilities, which are minimal. For all but the most challenged, caring for a wooden flute is effortless.
People who play flutes made from Delrin often seem insecure about their flute’s status as a musical instrument. There is a decidedly defensive tone when somebody talks about mollycoddling a wooden flute. For what it’s worth, Francois Baubet and I played Delrin flutes today and enjoyed every minute of our time together with his lovely plastic flutes. They were bright, had great volume and were in excellent tune. Solid bottom with a sweet second octave.
My own C flute, that I bring to flat sessions, is a Copley Delrin with an unlined head (no tuning slide). But unless I lived in Las Vegas, Tucson, or Dante’s Eighth Level, I would prefer to play a flute made from wood, if for no other reason than that a wooden flute is lighter, better balanced, and feels better in the hands than a Delrin job.
So, Jim, are your two Copleys both long foot flutes with a slide? Do they both have the same embouchure cut?
I own three Copleys. One in blackwood, C foot, Nickel-Silver slide, traditional eliptical embouchure. One in delrin - also with C foot, Nickel-Silver slide, and traditional eliptical embouchure. The third is a delrin short foot with modern embouchure. The first two sound and play virtually the same to me and those that I play with. The short foot Copley with the modern embouchure is a bit different but still a good flute.
This probably doesn’t have much to do with this particular topic, but it was mentioned or implied somewhere back in this thread that bamboo flutes have cylindrical bores, and therefore are not as good to get that Irish flute sound or response. After a bit of research and bamboo “dissection”, I’ve found that the bottom of some varieties of bamboo is tapered, a lot like Irish flutes. I was able to get my hands on some full lengths of bamboo, and made a shakuhachi style instrument with the bottom sections of it (I am an amateur flute maker in case you didn’t know, I do it as a hobby. It’s rather addicting!). Comparing that taper with the taper of my Copley delrin, it was surprisingly similar. As a result, I tried to make an Irish flute style bamboo flute, with the bottom tapered part of my other length of bamboo, but it irreparably cracked. I have yet to try it again. But when I get some more bamboo, I hope for a good outcome. If this taper is true with Erik the Flutemaker’s bamboo variety (or varieties), its a wonder he hasn’t made a special flute style with this taper. I wonder what he does with it. He wouldn’t possibly throw them in with his cylindrical bore flutes would he? And those pieces are just to good the throw out, so I wonder.
Sorry, just don’t get that when you could equally well argue the opposite! (Nothing ‘insecure’ about my choice when I’m committing to modifications that effectively make my flutes useless to anyone else and therefore expect them to be ‘flutes for life’.)
The quotation is taken out of context. I was responding to a specific question: Do i believe that copley’s wooden flutes are never better than any of his delrin flutes?
No, I don’t believe that, for the reason I gave. I wasn’t here arguing that wooden flutes sound better than delrin flutes.
This is a sincere question, not a challenge. Really want to know what you think, David. Do you think that there are no acoustic advantages to wood, all other things being equal. So that an Olwell delrin flute (there is one out there)
would sound as good as one made of blackwood? Not ‘Would it sound bad?’ but ‘Would it sound as good?’ All other things being equal, are the acoustical properties of blackwood better, even a bit, than those of delrin?
Did this thread turn into a wood vs. delrin debate Sorry, I’m having a hard time following along as I am still relatively new to the side blown flute and am still learning. How would all this information help me in my quest regards to the aluminum flute in topic? After looking around more, I could stretch my budget to fall into a Burns Folk Flute. Would that be a better option for my celtic, renaissance, and medieval music needs? Thanks.
Ever considered that you might just be playing too many flutes to give any of them the best chance?
Eh?
Yes. It might look and feel nice (yes, I think so too!), but it’s ultimately just a bit of ex-tree (with or without ex-dryad)…
So that an Olwell delrin flute (there is one out there) would sound as good as one made of blackwood? Not ‘Would it sound bad?’ but ‘Would it sound as good?’
Yes. While it might feel different to the player, I reckon you couldn’t tell which was which (assuming there’s an identical blackwood one to compare) in a blind listening test.
All other things being equal, are the acoustical properties of blackwood better, even a bit, than those of delrin?
Different, perhaps. Better (either way), probably not in any definable sense.
Apparently, yes.
How would all this information help me in my quest regards to the aluminum flute in topic?
It probably won’t, but that’s the C&F forums for you!
Thanks for your opinions, Peter. Would still like to hear from David/Julia, to whom the questions were addressed.
We’ve been corresponding for years and he’s given me lots of good advice about flutes.
Well…, first I must say that I’m enjoying this thread !
As a usual the thread switched to another subject, a very well known !
Talking about the original thread I would suggest you to get a more advanced flute (conical body) instead of the Somers delrin/metal flute, after all you own already the Tipple that from what I heard it is a quiet good cylindrical flute for starts !
I’ve owned a McGee’s Delrin and a Copley’s Blackwood which are both excellent flutes, but honestly speaking with my actual flute, a Somers Pratten in D, made in delrin (3 pcs construction), bought it used from C&F member, I’m quiet happy and it costs me much less than the others. i don’t think there is a better flute than that one for such a price (at least for a forever beginner like myself) , especially if you buy a used one ! So go for it !
About the delrin versus wood, I did read so many threads about it and in some of them i was involved too. but honestly speaking I cannot listen almost any difference in between a blackwood or delrin flute, or if I do notice the difference (which is quiet impossible for me most of the times) it must be only if I listen the flutes solos playing separately!
But one thing I can guarantee to you… "in the middle of a session it is impossible to notice any difference in between a flute in delrin or wood !
After all if a flute is well made it will sounds good with one or the other material ! So as many people already said, most of the time it is just a matter of preferences, budget, etc., etc..
And again, go for the Somers delrin (3 pcs construction) you will not be disappointed !
I’m not quite sure what the question is. Is it regarding the tone differences between Delrin and wood? I don’t know. Even if there is a difference, I’m not sure if that’s because of the material or the maker or the design of the flute. I couldn’t say that one is “better” than the other. I’m not even sure how to define “tone.” Is it different from “sound?”
Volume isn’t in the equation because any good flute can be played with enough volume. The best flutes all have their own unique qualities, which will appeal to different people. Wilkes, Hammy, Olwell, Murray, Grinter. They all have their champions. Each maker has unique virtues, reflected in the flutes he makes and in the material he chooses.
I am not a woodist. I play both wood and Delrin flutes. I try to get the clearest, purest sound that I can, staying in tune, with good rhythm and articulation, on whatever flute I am playing. I have many flutes, from many different makers. Trying to keep them all going is challenge enough. I don’t look for things I like better or worse, going from one flute to another. I don’t A/B flutes for comparison. I try to get the best sound out of whatever flute I am playing at the moment. As with kids and pets, I have my favorites but I love them all.
Garry, nice tone of your alu-delrin flute in those samples! It seems to be a great affordable student flute and outdoor-take-anywhere flute, and a good concept with its turned Delrin head with tapered bore, and aluminium body for lightness. The raised R3 hole is intriguing for a stronger low E and easier finger stretch. I like it!
I have yet to try it again. But when I get some more bamboo, I hope for a good outcome. If this taper is true with Erik the Flutemaker’s bamboo variety (or varieties), its a wonder he hasn’t made a special flute style with this taper. I wonder what he does with it. He wouldn’t possibly throw them in with his cylindrical bore flutes would he? And those pieces are just to good the throw out, so I wonder.
Sorry, I’m having a hard time following along as I am still relatively new to the side blown flute and am still learning. How would all this information help me in my quest regards to the aluminum flute in topic? After looking around more, I could stretch my budget to fall into a Burns Folk Flute. Would that be a better option for my celtic, renaissance, and medieval music needs? Thanks.