Amen.
Philo
PS - Tyg - I haven’t received a check from you (of course, you don’t owe me any money, but so what?).
Hmmm . . . I haven’t received a check from Tyg either. You could send me those O’Riordans instead . . . 
. . . oh, you don’t owe me anything either . . .
Tery
((ears flattened. . .looking at Phil and Tery narrowly)) okay you two!
but taking a sidetrack on this topic…just talk about ethics with NO implications to any of the people on this board with whom I’ve had dealings.
A sells B a whistle through an ad on the board…B realizes its worth 50% more than they paid for it. Should he do anything about it in regard to A? Can he resell on the board at the true value?
A sells B a whistle through an ad on the board, and B then realizes that it was worth 50% less. Should he do anything about it in regard to A? Can he resell it at the inflated value?
Last dilemma…A gives B a whistle. Can B ethically resell it on the board?
Just wondering. . .Curious Cat
I’m all for Caveot Emptor, completely, and Seller Beware, however you say that in Latin. I just want to say, though, that I have bought whistles and other things from people on this board, loaned them, borrowed them, and never once was anyone anything but completely upright.
[ This Message was edited by: cskinner on 2003-01-17 14:34 ]
On 2003-01-17 14:33, cskinner wrote:
I’m all for Caveot Emptor, completely, and Seller Beware, however you say that in Latin.
Caveat emptor. Geez. What were you doing in school? 
Nice to see thing back to nomal
[ This Message was edited by: Wizzer on 2003-01-17 14:58 ]
Nice to see things settled
[ This Message was edited by: Wizzer on 2003-01-17 14:56 ]
Interesting questions…
Q: A sells B a whistle through an ad on the board…B realizes its worth 50% more than they paid for it. Should he do anything about it in regard to A? Can he resell on the board at the true value?
A: Can he resell it? Certainly. Whether he should or not is another matter. I don’t see it as unethical to resell it, or, for that matter, do anything else he may with to do with it. However, there’s a question of motive. B buying it knowing it’s a steal is different from B buying it and finding out after the sale. I think it’s wrong to knowingly rip someone off (see story below for how well this works though 
), so don’t like to buy from people well under market.
Q: A sells B a whistle through an ad on the board, and B then realizes that it was worth 50% less. Should he do anything about it in regard to A? Can he resell it at the inflated value?
A: As long as the whistle was as described, and A didn’t defraud him, he has no claim against A - it’s just an example of a free market in action. Similarly, he could resell it at an inflated value - after all, businesses work by selling things for more than they cost so at some level it is ethical. The problem is that if you know you are charging way more than market for something and you will only sell it based upon the buyer’s lack of knowledge, that is, in my book, wrong. This is somewhat different for “one of a kind” articles - such items are worth what the market wants to pay for them.
Q: Last dilemma…A gives B a whistle. Can B ethically resell it on the board?
A: Ethically, yes. A gift is given and it’s done with - there’s not really an ethics issue on what the recipient does with the gift beyond the fact that it could hurt A’s feelings to see it sold. I would not sell a whistle given as a gift to me on the board because of wanting to avoid hurt feelings - that’s slightly different but related to ethics. However, one could argue that it would be wrong to keep a gift (especially an instrument) that would never be used - instruments are meant to be played, and if someone else can be made happy with it, why deprive them?
As an aside, when I was at college I used to buy instruments and sell them sometimes. I once found a couple selling a clarinet in an ad. When I checked it out, it was a mint top of the line Clarinet - worth far more than the $50 they wanted. I offered them $500 for it - I didn’t have it in my heart to buy if for their price. They declined, and then got it valued and then criticised me for not making a higher offer as I knew it’s value (I would have made money, but not an outrageous amount).
So, in situations like that, I would probably buy the thing under market, and when I sold it send a check to A for what I thought a more fair price would have been.
Richard
if you read this and still won’t pay for the whistle you bought, there will be other ways in life that will make you pay for steeling, like misfortune…(this is no thread), just a warning and advise to help you out of your misery
I think it’s been cleared up, lixnaw.
Richard, interesting story! I have one that was related in the C&F chat room that beats that all to hell and back, in re: someone buying a set of ‘antique Highland pipes’ off eBay, making a deal with the seller to take his old pipes in partial exchange. Deal was made for his pipes (value $800) plus about $400. Fellow received his pipes, sent them to be repaired (noting that they played beautifully…but with strange, nice sound) and was informed that he has HIGHLY valuable pipes…HISTORICALLY VALUABLE pipes, and a museum in Scotland requested that they be left to the museum in his will, as they couldn’t afford to purchase them from him. And please insure them for (I think the number turned out to be) $28K. Fellow offered them BACK to the original seller even exchange with his original pipes and the $400…and the seller refused. I call that class act all the way around.
I’m glad this got settled. I’ve bought, sold, and traded whistles with more then 15 C&Fers and never a hitch. We’re the most honorable bunch I’ve ever run across, so I’m glad this got settled, and our record kept clean (except for McHaffie, which didn’t involve me).
Well I feel terrible. I have almost 500 positives on ebay and I sold a Susato low d to a nice guy, also a musician and by chance bought a Folksong book from him. He mailed the book straight out. I paid by e-bay payments. To my horror e-bay has screwed up again with their online payments and not sent him the money. Three times they have done this to me. Paypal seems ok just the Billpoint system in the Uk is not right. I’ve heard loads of comments and bad dealings with it.
On 2003-01-17 10:44, PhilO wrote:
The best whistles in my collection were purchased from people who trustingly sent me the whistles before I even decided to buy them and really high end stuff to boot.The dealers and makers can’t deal that way; they need verified credit card number or money order or a wait for checks to clear prior to shipping, and that’s expected.
Actually, Glenn Schultz, among others (is Sindt the other?), does work this way. He sends out whistles, then asks for the price of the whistle plus his postage. If you don’t like the whistle, you send it back. When I wanted to try a flute, he sent TWO flutes, and asked that I either send back one plus a check or both.
I’ve often wanted to ask him whether he’s ever gotten burned. I suspect the answer is yes, but I think it would be difficult for even the most dishonest person to take advantage of someone that trusting.
You’re right Charlie, I forgot; Glenn once sent me 3 whistles and told me to keep and pay for what I wanted and return the others, if any.
Philo
You’re right Charlie, I forgot; Glenn once sent me 3 whistles and told me to keep and pay for what I wanted and return the others, if any.
Philo
Well, for my own 2cents, I’ve bought and sold a fair number of whistles to C&Fers…
Every time I’ve done so (both buying and selling), it’s been in the ‘traditional’ manner: Money sent, instrument sent when money arrives. I’ve had one not-smooth transaction (comedy of errors..nobody’s fault, cept maybe mine for being short due to money pressures), but everything worked out in the end.
For folks who send whistles first, I’m glad nobody’s been burned…but it’ll only take once to make you feel rather betrayed. I prefer to avoid the off chance.
On 2003-01-17 21:35, Wandering_Whistler wrote:
Well, for my own 2cents, I’ve bought and sold a fair number of whistles to C&Fers…Every time I’ve done so (both buying and selling), it’s been in the ‘traditional’ manner: Money sent, instrument sent when money arrives. I’ve had one not-smooth transaction (comedy of errors..nobody’s fault, cept maybe mine for being short due to money pressures), but everything worked out in the end.
For folks who send whistles first, I’m glad nobody’s been burned…but it’ll only take once to make you feel rather betrayed. I prefer to avoid the off chance. >
That doesn’t remove the element of trust, though, because the buyer is still trusting that the seller will indeed send the whistle after payment is received. There has to be trust no matter how it’s done.
On 2003-01-17 12:01, tkelly wrote:
Wombat, the fellow was away when I shipped the instrument. I knew that and didn’t worry. He’s back – not on the board, I don’t think, but he has received and sent e-mail since he returned. Since he returned over 2 weeks ago . . . well, maybe it will still work out.Tery
I hope so, but it does look bad, doesn’t it? Obviously it’s important to rule out all possible misunderstandings before going public. I do think you’re wise to be cautious though. Hope this gets sorted Tery.
Well there I go replying to a comment before I finish reading the thread. Turns out to have been a variation on just the thing I was describing. I’m really glad for all that this got sorted so openly and well.