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 Post subject: Re: St. Patrick's Day activities
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:40 am 
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LOVE the green white and gold Union Jack! That is hysterical :lol:
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Patrick.

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 Post subject: Re: St. Patrick's Day activities
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 1:22 pm 
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:lol: Now that I think about it, one could argue that it aligns with Kentucky's 'official' position in the US Civil War.

Accidental irony, or ... ?

... Nah. Couldn't be.

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 Post subject: Re: St. Patrick's Day activities
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 1:25 pm 
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It's really becoming more and more like Mardi Gras

...Paddy Gras?

Coined here first!
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 Post subject: Re: St. Patrick's Day activities
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 1:33 pm 
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Fat Pat? :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: St. Patrick's Day activities
PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 2:14 am 
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Liam, were those pics taken in the Weedge?

First one looks like an Orange March. Lovely.


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 Post subject: Re: St. Patrick's Day activities
PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 2:21 am 
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Hi SS

The Orange walk photo is most likely Airdrie, even though they are held in Glasgow. In fact there are quite a few all round the west of Scotland.

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 Post subject: Re: St. Patrick's Day activities
PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 2:48 am 
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For everyone else's edification (if you don't already know):

Orange marches (the dudes in Liam's first pic) are basically the continuation of the sectarian nonsense that we still have in this city, which has it origins in the religious and political divisions in Northern Ireland. From the late nineteenth century to the early twentieth century, lots of Irish people, both Catholics and Protestants, emigrated from Ulster to Glasgow to work in the factories and live in the slums. They brought their political baggage, if you will, with them. Additionally the predominately Protestant population of the city wasn't too happy about all these Irish Catholics coming in. As a result Glasgow has suffered more than its fair share of sectarian violence, though not to the degree of Northern Ireland. Orangemen trace their roots to the unionist Protestants of Northern Ireland and their marches don't seem to have any other purpose than announcing that they (still) are anti-Catholic and showing support for the Union of Northern Ireland and Britain. They also seem to be an excuse to get drunk and riot and cause general mayhem, which is why the Glasgow City Council occasionally toys with the idea of banning them (to the cries of, "But it's tradition!"). The colour commemorates William of Orange's victory over the Catholic James II in the Battle of the Boyne in 1690.

The flag Pat D'Arcy posted is ridiculously politically charged. That Union Jack, coloured like the Irish flag, is a flagrant symbol of the sectarianism that has lead to a lot of violence. It's not that funny if you're familiar with the problems it's caused in Glasgow and the worse problems in Northern Ireland. You couldn't pay me enough money to fly a flag like that anywhere in Scotland or Ireland.


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 Post subject: Re: St. Patrick's Day activities
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:53 pm 
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I agree with all SilverSpear has said.

I also think SilverSpear has said it very well.

Well done SilverSpear.

Peace, beloved.

Pipewort.


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 Post subject: Re: St. Patrick's Day activities
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 2:19 pm 
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Time to sabotage my own thread!!

TheSilverSpear wrote:
The colour commemorates William of Orange's victory over the Catholic James II in the Battle of the Boyne in 1690.


In fact, the original battle commemorated on July 12 was the Battle of Aughrim in 1691.

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 Post subject: Re: St. Patrick's Day activities
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:22 pm 
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TheSilverSpear wrote:
The flag Pat D'Arcy posted is ridiculously politically charged. That Union Jack, coloured like the Irish flag, is a flagrant symbol of the sectarianism that has lead to a lot of violence. It's not that funny if you're familiar with the problems it's caused in Glasgow and the worse problems in Northern Ireland. You couldn't pay me enough money to fly a flag like that anywhere in Scotland or Ireland.

<!-- Begin: Not intended to stoke any fires or create havoc -->

Absolutely! I was quite shocked myself at the casual use that was made of it in the video of the Def Leppard cover band. I had never thought of such a thing - Irish colours on the Union Jack! No Flippin' Way! It was something my imagination would not permit - the fact that someone thought to do it is rather funny to me. I saw it as an Irish invasion on England rather than the other way around.... it may have actually happened already, we just aren't telling anyone. I was taken aback by the shere balls it would take to do that. I think the parade was filmed in America, it wouldn't be as politically charged to the general public over here in the States, especially considering the context of it being Def Leppard's logo (The Union Jack) in a St. Patrick's Day parade!

<!-- End: Not intended to stoke any fires or create havoc -->

Patrick.

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 Post subject: Re: St. Patrick's Day activities
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:49 pm 
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Patrick D'Arcy wrote:
<!-- Begin: Not intended to stoke any fires or create havoc -->

Absolutely! I was quite shocked myself at the casual use that was made of it in the video of the Def Leppard cover band. I had never thought of such a thing - Irish colours on the Union Jack! No Flippin' Way! It was something my imagination would not permit - the fact that someone thought to do it is rather funny to me. I saw it as an Irish invasion on England rather than the other way around.... it may have actually happened already, we just aren't telling anyone. I was taken aback by the shere balls it would take to do that. I think the parade was filmed in America, it wouldn't be as politically charged to the general public over here in the States, especially considering the context of it being Def Leppard's logo (The Union Jack) in a St. Patrick's Day parade!

<!-- End: Not intended to stoke any fires or create havoc -->

Patrick.


I had no idea that was the logo of a Def Leppard cover band. I don't listen to that music at all. Are they an American cover band? That changes the whole message of the flag from people being flagrantly Unionist/pro-Orange lodge/pro-UVF to just being eejits who should read up on some Irish history. **Many of them, in my experience, are often not familiar with the subtleties of UK or Irish politics. For example, I wish I had a pound for every American who referred to the entire UK as "England." I'd be able to afford a set of regulators. Politicians and news reporters seem to be the worst offenders.

**In fairness I doubt I really picked up on these subtleties -- at least not to the degree I am aware of it now -- until I moved out here but I wasn't making foreign policy decisions or reporting foreign policy decisions, either.


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 Post subject: Re: St. Patrick's Day activities
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:44 pm 
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Nicely defused -

Phew!

:D


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 Post subject: Re: St. Patrick's Day activities
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:38 am 
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Phew is right. I'd carefully composed a rather rambling essay on benign American ignorance and whether that was sometimes not as bad a thing as bitter torch-carrying or outright revisionism, but you can already see how illuminating that essay was ... :lol:

Yes, it was in a video taken in Louisville, Kentucky of a "band" doing a Def Leppard sendup for a St. Patrick's Day parade float themed "Def Leprechaun." So the flag "adaptation} was a mildly clever parody, but I SERIOUSLY doubt these guys were clever enough, let alone informed enough on Trouble History, to have gone any deeper with it than "Dudes! We'll change the Def Leppard logo to Irish colors!" :horns all around:

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 Post subject: Re: St. Patrick's Day activities
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:00 am 
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Four-leafed "shamrocks" cause me to grind my molars. It is the epitomy of commercialisation. It is the sorry result of little research and the mongrelization legends by uninformed 1960s-era Madison Avenue types looking to distinguish otherwise bland products from their equally bland competition.

Green beer runs a very close second.

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 Post subject: Re: St. Patrick's Day activities
PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:38 am 
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PJ wrote:
Four-leafed "shamrocks" cause me to grind my molars. It is the epitomy of commercialisation. It is the sorry result of little research and the mongrelization legends by uninformed 1960s-era Madison Avenue types...


What's interesting is that four-leaved shamrocks, as a symbol of Irishness, predate the 1960's by a full century.

The football club Glasgow Celtic, formed in 1868, uses the four-leaved shamrock and the colours green and white to symbolise Irishness.

Likewise the basketball team Boston Celtic has long used the same symbol and colours.

Both Glasgow and Boston were areas of large Irish immigration in the mid-19th century, and those Irish immigrants chose the four-leaved shamrock as their symbol. I wonder why? Oh, and both teams pronounce it "selltick".

What causes me to "grind my molars" on St Pat's is seeing people spell it St Patty's Day (just who is this Saint Patricia anyhow?)

Anyhow on St Pat's I spent noon-3pm with a trio playing in a nice bar/restaurant. Nice and quiet with people actually listening. Then off to a relaxed gathering in a home, a gig which I've done now for over ten years. A number of Welsh people were present and I ended up playing Sou Gan and Ash Grove on the pipes.

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