You can't possibly be serious!The Weekenders wrote:cynical hipsters from MTV
Hipster:
MTV's CEO Tom Freston:
You can't possibly be serious!The Weekenders wrote:cynical hipsters from MTV
actually, i must tell the rest of the story. the europeans claimed that even american cartoons are violent. i couldn't deny that as a kid in america many a toon character was blown to smithereens. i countered, "but we knew that wasn't real!" they countered, "same with janet..."Rando7 wrote:I am an American but don't watch much TV so maybe I am missing something here. What are these shows that show people getting bombed and their heads blown off every night?french wrote:"
talked about the janet-justin issue at lunch with my european colleagues - and all i got was a bunch of, "yeah sure, they show people getting bombed and their head blown off on tv every night and the americans get riled up about a breast."
- tom
ok, thenThe Weekenders wrote:I tried to make the point earlier in this thread that the sexual themes have replaced the blood and gore on tv (except movie re-runs), but people are always behind the times in their prejudices. It's old news... let the Euros jeer in their ignorance.
The most frustrating thing to me is this predictable cycle: cynical hipsters from MTV who want everything to be degraded to their sex and drug lifestyle purposely pull this stunt, then roll their eyes at the reaction. It validates their "alienation" from mainstream society while simultaneously feeding the capitalist beast of entertainment spectacle. It's a Howard Stern world, if they get their way (which deep down, they probably don't really want, because they are "naughty boys and girls" and revel in the distinction). BTW, these are the same people who wish we were more "like the Europeans" in terms of "attitudes about sex." I have been hearing that canard since the late 60s.
This will continue seemingly forever unless we have government control, which under our system, will be fought from both sides of the political spectrum. Square folk also have the capacity to use consumer power and do on occasion.
Savage made the point the other day that there is no seeming bottom in the fall to depravity and moralists must endure the scorn to insist on some standards. In a religion-free humanist society, there IS no concept of depraved, only provable criminal behavior, and with enough psychiatric/psychological temporizing, that behavior is limited.
Though its obviously singular, the recent case in Germany of the homosexual cannibal, who got an eight-year sentence for dismembering and consuming the better part of a willing participant, sets a new low in secular depravity. In the first place, the guy runs the ad, which is allowed to begin with, somewhere. In the depraved society there are plenty of outlets for this kind of expression, without moralists to object, ban or otherwise oppress.
As an example, I wanted to buy a wallet for my kid's birthday gift. I key in Bay Area leather accessories. Most of the hits were S&M related...sheesh.
I am not singling out Germany, as you can see from above, although that judge should be a source of world curiosity. Our papers haven't even mentioned the case, oddly enough. More consumed with Laci, Michael and Janet, I guess. Other levels of depravity.
But the activist judge apparently determined that he was not criminally malicious (need help from German chiffsters here) to my understanding.
To me, this is all about empowered psychological and psychiatric views, which replace religious-based judgement in the New Secular Order, and explain away criminality. EIGHT YEARS!!
I hope America stays more square, frankly. Laugh all you want.
First please bear in mind, that I may pick the wrong word to describe and it may fit to harsh even it is not meant like this.The Weekenders wrote: But the activist judge apparently determined that he was not criminally malicious (need help from German chiffsters here) to my understanding.
To me, this is all about empowered psychological and psychiatric views, which replace religious-based judgement in the New Secular Order, and explain away criminality. EIGHT YEARS!!
You lack the system of reference, Weeks. Eight years is a heavy sentence in Germany. The longest sentence normally available under German criminal law is 15 years (called "life" but meaning 15 yrs in practice). Manslaughter (that is non-murder homicide) will get you considerably less than 15 years. Armed Robbery will not usually get you more than 5 years, unless people get hurt or you've done it before, and so forth. Only very exceptionally vicious crimes can get you past 15 years (happened recently for abduction/rape/murder of 2 children). (The German constitution bans capital punishment, btw.) You may remember the outrage when the lunatic who stabbed Monica Seles at a tennis tournament in Hamburg received a sentence of 2 years, suspended for parole plus mandatory psychiatric treatment. These things are always hard to judge outside one's normal experience. For example, many more Germans than American apparently consider a life sentence without parole for someone who wrote two bad checks and stole a slice of pizza under CA's "three-strikes" law ludicrously harsh.The Weekenders wrote:But the activist judge apparently determined that he was not criminally malicious (need help from German chiffsters here) to my understanding.
To me, this is all about empowered psychological and psychiatric views, which replace religious-based judgement in the New Secular Order, and explain away criminality. EIGHT YEARS!!
I hope America stays more square, frankly. Laugh all you want.
"We are dealing with behavior that is taboo in our civilized society," Judge Volker Muetze stated in the opinion. "We are at the fringes of criminal law, since we lack experience in this area." Since cannibalism is not a defined crime [under the German ciminal code], the court was venturing into uncharted territory. Mitigating factors reducing the sentence were the complete confession of the perpetrator and the formal consent of the victim. Both used the other to fulfill their own desires," Muetze said. "Both men lived detached from their normal lives in a world of the internet with their phantasies and imagination. The trial revealed that in the sub-culture of the internet there are not only many people interested in child ρσяиσפядρђψ but also many interested in cannibalism. "Here there are persons living their phantasies who more properly require help."Brigitte wrote:About the judge:
Es handelt sich um ein in unserer zivilisierten Gesellschaft geächtetes Verhalten, den Kannibalismus», sagte Richter Volker Mütze in der Urteilsbegründung. «Wir befinden uns im Grenzbereich des Strafrechts, da Erfahrungswerte fehlen.» Da Kannibalismus kein Straftatbestand ist, hatte das Gericht mit dem Verfahren Neuland betreten. Günstig auf das Strafmaß habe sich das umfassende Geständnis von Meiwes und das formale Einverständnis des Opfers ausgewirkt.
Für beide war der andere das Instrument zur Erfüllung der eigenen Wünsche», sagte Mütze. Beide hätten in einer von ihrem normalen Leben abgeschotteten Welt des Internets mit ihren Fantasien und Vorstellungen gelebt.» Der Prozess habe aufgedeckt, dass sich in der Subkultur des Internets nicht nur viele Menschen mit Kinderpornografie sondern auch mit Kannibalismus beschäftigten. «Hier leben Menschen ihre Fantasien aus, denen eigentlich Hilfe zuteil werden muss.»
That would certainly be a big, sprawling and intrusive government, that could actually ban the very publication of such a thing.The Weekenders wrote: Though its obviously singular, the recent case in Germany of the homosexual cannibal, who got an eight-year sentence for dismembering and consuming the better part of a willing participant, sets a new low in secular depravity. In the first place, the guy runs the ad, which is allowed to begin with, somewhere. In the depraved society there are plenty of outlets for this kind of expression, without moralists to object, ban or otherwise oppress.
Sorry, Weeks. I read your remark above to mean that you thought it bad such an ad was allowed in the first place.The Weekenders wrote:Right Caj. That was one of my points. But the main point is my criticism for those who scorn and ridicule the moralizing, religious forces within American society who raise consciousness about such outlets and activities. Without a controlling governmental force, we rely on voluntary constraints.