Oil Question

[Sirchronique]

So, the previous oil I was using is no longer available to me, so I recently bought a new brand of almond oil. Rather than capsules, I ordered “pure vitamin E oil” along with it.

How many parts vitamin E oil should ideally be added to the almond oil in order to prevent rancidity? Is one drop per two tablespoons sufficient?

I’m getting ready to oil my flutes tonight or tomorrow, so I wanted to see if anyone had any information on this first.

[stiofan]

I typically see suggestions for "a small amount" or "a few drops" of vitamin E added to almond oil to prevent it from going rancid, so I'd guess that the equivalent amount that's in a capsule would suffice. I just started using almond oil for my flutes last fall (instead of linseed oil or conventional woodwind bore oil), on recommendation of the makers (Olwell & Lesouef), and have been keeping it in the fridge to keep in fresh, without adding any vitamin E, but I suppose it might help.

If you haven't yet, might want to read through these discussions:
https://forums.chiffandfipple.com/viewt ... p?t=111865
viewtopic.php?t=79239
viewtopic.php?p=598117

Stephen

[Sirchronique]

I already oiled it earlier today. I just put some almond oil in a small jar and put two drops of vitamin E oil in it. It’s a Mopane Lesouef.

I oil it about once per year, but I waited a longer than I normally do between oilings this time (maybe about 15 months), as I play it daily. I probably should not have waited so long, as the wood seemed thirsty. One of the silver rings fell off when I was oiling the outside and accidentally bumped it as I was rubbing it down. Are these initially glued on? I haven’t had that happen before. I put it back on, and I will be more diligent about oiling in the future.

I’ve got it in a sealed tub right now with a damp paper towel in a shot glass to humidify it.


As for the vitamin E- I buy new almond oil in small quantities every time I oil wooden flutes and whistles. I was adding the vitamin E to prevent it from going bad in the flute.

[stiofan]

It’s a Mopane Lesouef.

One of the silver rings fell off when I was oiling the outside and accidentally bumped it as I was rubbing it down. Are these initially glued on? I haven’t had that happen before. I put it back on, and I will be more diligent about oiling in the future.

Here's a short video of Solen demonstrating how to (re)attach loose rings:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCrIvmwB0Kw

EDIT: I tried doing this myself recently and just couldn’t get the cloth underneath the ring cut the right way, so ended up sending it to Jon C. for his repair expertise. See Terry McGee’s instructions for the ‘handkerchief fix’: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=46499

[Sirchronique]

It’s a Mopane Lesouef.

One of the silver rings fell off when I was oiling the outside and accidentally bumped it as I was rubbing it down. Are these initially glued on? I haven’t had that happen before. I put it back on, and I will be more diligent about oiling in the future.

Here's a short video of Solen demonstrating how to (re)attach loose rings:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCrIvmwB0Kw

EDIT: I tried doing this myself recently and just couldn’t get the cloth underneath the ring cut the right way, so ended up sending it to Jon C. for his repair expertise. See Terry McGee’s instructions for the ‘handkerchief fix’: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=46499

Thanks for the info. I wasn’t aware that the ring coming off was that serious.

I trust Solen’s advice on the matter, but I am not sure if I am understanding completely. If cloth is under the ring, would that not create more pressure when the wood then expands again after taking in more moisture? How are these rings initially affixed to the wood in the first place? Are they held solely by friction?

I may have to send Jon C a message to see if he can help me remedy the issue. I have an old piccolo that needs new key pads, so maybe both can be taken care of simultaneously.

[Steve Bliven]

I trust Solen’s advice on the matter, but I am not sure if I am understanding completely. If cloth is under the ring, would that not create more pressure when the wood then expands again after taking in more moisture? How are these rings initially affixed to the wood in the first place? Are they held solely by friction?

Per Mlle. LeSoeuf's Oiling and Caring for Your Flute instruction sheet, "The silver rings on your flute are not just decorative. The tenons need to be relatively tight and exert outwards pressure on the mortices. The rings support the wood and stop the mortices from cracking. The rings also bind the barrrel and head around the tuning slide. Many flutes crack because the rings are loose [Her emphasis.] The rings are installed on your flute with a press so they are extremely tight but the wood can shrink due to dry weather of central heating.

"The rings are not glued in place and can and do come off sometimes. [Again, her emphasis.] If a ring comes off superglue or expoxy is not the answer. It must be installed with cloth underneath it to fill the gap. Although this is a simple standard repair it is best to see a woodwind repairer or you can send your flute back to me for a total revision."

From my perspective, her flute — her rules. It would be interesting to hear whether other makers differ in their thoughts.

Best wishes.

Steve

[Terry McGee]

As you will see from the link mentioned above, my instructions are very similar to Solen's, except I tap my rings into place, rather than squeeze them in a vice or press. The mental image of a cooper putting rings on a barrel always springs to my mind when doing it.

Now if only one ring comes loose, it probably tells us that the maker put that one on a little less tightly than the others. But if you find several rings coming loose, it warns you that the humidity must have dropped considerably. This of itself is not too concerning, apart from reminding you to check from time-to-time that the rest of the rings are tight and aren't going to fall off in the middle of the session and roll beyond hope of reach under the bar fridge. But if your flute has captive metal tuning slides, realise that the wood surrounding these is now under increasing splitting tension. So definitely time to do something about the humidity. Loose rings are easily fixed, cracked heads or barrels are a real problem.

[Sirchronique]

Thanks for the responses everyone. I normally keep my instruments in a humidified music room in the basement, but I had my flute in my bedroom for the past year because I play it often in there. Between central heating and having a fireplace going, it must have really dried the air in the upstairs of my house more than I had thought. Lesson learned


In any case, after humidifying the flute the ring seems to be secure again. It did not come off when I was shaking out moisture after playing. I even gave it a little nudge with my finger and it did not move.

Would it still be advisable to have this looked into, or is it doing it’s job now? It was the ring at the foot of the flute.

[The Danish Piper]

What is this thing about vitamin E in the oil?
I have never heard that recommend before.

I did know that olive oil for example, could become bad, when used for anything other than cooking.
But I thought that almond oil was used, since it would not "go bad" in the same way.

[david_h]

What is this thing about vitamin E in the oil?

It's an oil soluble antioxidant. The idea is that the oil goes rancid due to oxidation. Storing it in a dark bottle, in the 'fridge, and ideally in a bottle filled to the top, are also done to reduce oxidation.

Mine has never gone rancid, but I have never tested storing it any other way so that's no proof that they are needed.

[jim stone]

'Would it still be advisable to have this looked into, or is it doing it’s job now? It was the ring at the foot of the flute.' Suggest you make sure humidity is alright and then get on with things. No need to have it checked if they stay as they are.