Making Conical Whistles of Rolled Metal- Resources?

[Tommy]

Here is an interesting link of insight and motivation.
https://forums.chiffandfipple.com/viewt ... p?t=105777

[Sirchronique]

I still have plenty of excellent comments to respond to in this post, however I wanted to share this video I found. You can see at the beginning of the video how he is feeding it into a simple device where it is held by a bar and he can crank it to roll the sheet metal into the appropriate shape. It’s actually a rather simple and effective device.

https://fb.watch/hr6O34kbZi/?mibextid=v7YzmG

I plan to find someone skilled and knowledge in fabrication and metalwork who could help me with acquiring/creating such a device that I can use to bend the metal sheet into dimensions that match my Calura B natural (which is way narrower than even a Clarke, despite being a much lower key).

It seems that the biggest hurdle here is simply acquiring the specialized equipment I need, as everything else seems rather straightforward, with the only other major challenge being the voicing/windway/ramp/fipple section of the whistle, which I’m not worried about.

I’m interested in doing this simply because I love that B whistle and would be very happy to have the capability to reproduce something near to it, followed by tinkering and experimenting with the design. That being said, if I were to get down a good system for producing these, I’d love to be able to produce many and offer them inexpensively to others who may also enjoy them.

[Tommy]

Interesting video. I doubt if Robert clark had any machines when he went on the road with cart to make and sell penny whistles. Yes his cart had a simple machine (wheel).

Im sure these whistles can be made with simple hand tools.

[GreenWood]

As Tommy says, I am sure you could make them with simple tooling . For the rest (good video you linked) ..

Conical shape mandrel is possible to make like this

https://www.labellenote.fr/lutherie/ins ... sconiques/


It would have a groove to catch the plate , result visible on the seam here



The outside form is possibly cast but probably a welded and smoothed case, bolts at side holding

Either a conical tube under the plate feed at top. The conical tube could be cast, could be a thick pipe formed/forged to shape. Probably fits exact shape of mandrel.

Or a set of adjustable rollers. [ Search: make sheet metal roller ]



Once you know which, unless you know how to make that and have the tools, then it is to find someone who would and does.

[GreenWood]

If rollers, something similar to in the video below possibly, but with rollers set very close to mandrel as the sheet metal is thin (flexible)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7MmQQPeQkh8

[Terry McGee]

Or the same people getting into a higher gear: (and you'll love the music.....)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7amXR5W ... crotechinc

Oh, and remember to mind your thumbs. You need both to hold up the whistle later....

(Sheesh, a foot operated start button and no hand guards. Don't these people have Occupational Health and Safety legislation?)

[Tommy]

Don't these people have Occupational Health and Safety legislation?)

With only two employees OSHA has no jurisdiction!

[Terry McGee]

Great video, Sirchronique, thanks for sharing. I imagine that the casing is just made in two parts, and held together by the three bolts visible. You can catch a glimpse at 26 seconds in of two cylindrical rods sticking out near the outside bolts - perhaps there to align the two halves?

Splitting the casing like that would make it much easier to make, as you'd mill half the hole in each part. Still not a walk in the park, as the two semicircular trenches have to taper. But perhaps they don't have to be close fitting to the final form for their entire diameter? Enough perhaps if just the trailing edge of each half is a good fit?

What isn't clear to me is what makes the blank want to "take up" with the mandrel as it is rotated. Is there a slot in the mandrel?

[Tommy]

Great video, Sirchronique, thanks for sharing.



What isn't clear to me is what makes the blank want to "take up" with the mandrel as it is rotated. Is there a slot in the mandrel?

Yes there is a slot.

[Terry McGee]

So wouldn't that leave a thin blade of metal running down the middle of the whistle? Or does that get flattened over in a subsequent step that they haven't showed us?

[Tommy]

So wouldn't that leave a thin blade of metal running down the middle of the whistle?

Yes it is inside on the Bottom. The seam solder can be cut with a utility roofers knife then open it can be made flat and used for a pattern.

Scroll back to the picture with the fipple square and look at lower left corner.

[Sirchronique]

I was looking at some of my conical whistles, and it’s interesting how different manufacturers addressed the matter of the seam/join of the body material. Maybe I will set up a thing so I can share photos on here, or make a quick video to show this.

I picked up a super strange whistle last week that has similar external markings to the Calura whistles, but it is put together in the strangest way. It has a seam on the left and right side of the body. It seems they took the top half (with the holes) and the bottom half (where you put your thumb, facing the floor) and joined them together by bending the extra material around that of the opposite half, on the left and right side of the whistle. The whistle itself is awful, but I do wonder if this one aspect of its construction may be of use,

It’s a very unusual way of doing this, which I have never seen done before. This would probably make it very easy to produce a conical bore with minimal equipment, simply by making a conical indentation in two small sheets. It’s a bit difficult to explain, so maybe I will do a quick private youtube video to just give some close up shots of it, and share the link in this thread.

[Terry McGee]

Yeah, I'd encourage a video or images so that we are all on the same page!

[Terry McGee]

So, we made Otai at home last night. It's a Polynesian drink, in this version a blend of watermelon, coconut milk and mint. Delicious when served icy cold.

But then I'm looking at the left over coconut milk tin. (Yes, I know you're disappointed we didn't use a real coconut, but they don't grow so well down here.) And of course my mind, like anyone's I'm sure, got to thinking "tin whistle?"

So this morning I recovered the empty tin from the recycling bin, and cut it up with tin snips. It's a tiny little tin, so I knew I wouldn't get far with it, but I was interested to see if I could do the classic double-bent-over locking seam. And my secondary interest was - how thick is the tin plate, and how strong?

Answering that last question first, it turned out to be 0.2mm, 2/3rds the thickness used by Clarke's. In sheet form it's very flexible, but also very springy.

So I cut out a rough rectangle on the bench shears, without measuring, but aiming at enough metal for about half an inch diameter (13mm). And using the bench metal folder, turned up a fold on one edge, and turned down a fold on the other. The folds would be between 2 and 3mm high, and I took them past a right angle to the max the folder could manage, probably leaving an included angle of around 60º. I then used the clamping-down section of the folder to squish the folds further down, till they were hook-shaped.

Then I started forming the central flat metal around a 1/2" rod. You can only get so far like this, as the folds quickly start to get in the way. So then forcing the folded edges down and in, I was able to convince them first to overlap, and then, when carefully released, to link together, as one links the fingers of one hand under the fingers of the other when trying to look meek. That wasn't hard with my short length, but I imagine you could work from one end with a full whistle length, perhaps securing the first end with a washer or twist of wire to prevent it springing free again.

Looking at either end of my new tube, you'd hardly call it round. But I have a convenient little punch I use often, essentially a short length of 1/2" steel rod, tapered down to near a point. I poked the pointy end in one end of the tube, and started pushing and then tapping, until it was fully inside. Placing that on the small anvil I use for keywork, I tapped along the linked folds with a ball-peen hammer until they formed a full length closed seam. And then tapped any protruding bits of the tube onto the punch (now a mandrel!) using a soft mallet and the anvil. Looking at the ends, you'd call them adequately if not perfectly round. It would be easier to do this on a tapered mandrel as you could tap it in a bit further, then work on any high spots.

And yes, holding it like a whistle, that familiar and not-really-welcome feel of the seam on your thumbs.

And, trying to squish the tube in the hands, you'd call it quite strong. You know you could squish it if you tried, but I reckon it would stand up to whistle use.

And, putting a thumb over the opposite end, you can suck a vacuum. And that's without soldering or running a sealer in to it.

So, an amusing experiment, but one that confirms that this form of construction is possible with normal workshop tools.