CP (Kind of?) First look at Barter Loch whistles

[Sedi]

I really like the design! If I didn't already make my own whistles, I'd consider getting one . How much will you be selling them for?

[MadmanWithaWhistle]

I really like the design! If I didn't already make my own whistles, I'd consider getting one . How much will you be selling them for?

Thanks! Still looking at final materials cost, labor etc, but probably in the same neighborhood as Killarney for the basic model; other more artsy limited editions will go for more.

[pancelticpiper]

Interesting you went with a two part design. The Camac whistlehead had a removable plug as well.

Yes mine self-removed in the drawer and I can't find the darn thing.

[MadmanWithaWhistle]

Interesting you went with a two part design. The Camac whistlehead had a removable plug as well.

Yes mine self-removed in the drawer and I can't find the darn thing.

Ha! Ironic story, I spent all this time designing the indexing and geometry of the plug, the idea being it's good to have access to polish and/or adjust the critical surfaces, but I've since found I get better tone printing them in one piece and just using a narrow strip of sandpaper to finish the windway. One of the few times the simpler/easier/faster solution actually is better

[pancelticpiper]

As people are saying it's how it plays that's the important thing, and I would love to try one once you get it into production. (I would like a black head if you don't mind...though Pete Fountain Clear would be great too.)

A couple makers are offering 3D printed uilleann pipe chanters, which potentially can solve the longstanding challenge of getting decent-playing uilleann pipes into the hands of beginners.

[MadmanWithaWhistle]

A couple makers are offering 3D printed uilleann pipe chanters, which potentially can solve the longstanding challenge of getting decent-playing uilleann pipes into the hands of beginners.

Yeah, and it’s happening with all kinds of world bagpipes right now! The 3D bagpipe and whistle builder’s group is a powerhouse of research and collaboration. My goal is to offer affordable, durable, and low-maintenance folk instruments, particularly to younger players, and contribute experimental data and innovation back to the bagpiping & woodwind community at large.

Just heard back from the church I practice in, they have their new COVID protocols set up and I can get back in. So, quality sound samples & video coming soon!

Edit: I’ve had so many people requesting a clear one I will probably make those at the same time as the black ones in the second run

[MadmanWithaWhistle]

Well, it decided to dump 8" of snow today so my poor '94 Toyota Camry is staying put. However, after a nice day in the snow, I decided I'd at least put down something. Forgive my unnecessary explanation of a few things like embouchure; I'm also sharing this video with folks less knowledgeable than you Chiffers!

https://youtu.be/nMkC92S1M54

[Sedi]

Sounds lovely! Nice "attack". So a whistle with actual chiff in the proper sense of the word. I like it.
And I really like your playing! Good to know that this whistle is made by someone who knows exactly what he's doing since he can play the thing . Hats off!

[MadmanWithaWhistle]

Sounds lovely! Nice "attack". So a whistle with actual chiff in the proper sense of the word. I like it.
And I really like your playing! Good to know that this whistle is made by someone who knows exactly what he's doing since he can play the thing . Hats off!

Thanks! Yes, those “free articulations” and that generally edgier tone are key things I think are missing from what’s currently out there, and what inspired this project in part. I think those extra elements help give presence to the instrument, both solo and in a session.

I’m going to author a series of blog articles detailing the design process, my motivation for what I chose, and some of the observations I made on the effect of different dimensions. I’m really curious to see if other folks have noticed similar stuff and could hopefully tell me more about it!

[Narzog]

Good tone and playing. I'm more of what Sedi expected to see in the video. I've probobly spent more time crafting in the basement than actually practicing my playing haha. At least I'll finally spend most of my time practicing when I've made a good one for every key and don't have any more to make.

Also you should make sure you sell brass body versions. I've always been a fan of brass whistles but most makers just sell aluminum I feel like. I've worried about lead content in using brass but I feel like its so minimal that I'm just being hyper paranoid as usual.

[TxWhistler]

Very nice sound on both of those heads. Thanks for sharing. Best wishes for your success on this project.

[Mr.Gumby]

Clever to demo on an Eb, they are always the swift little racehorses of the whistle range. It would be interesting to hear a D though.

But so far so good, decent first impression. I would certainly try one if I'd come across one. Would I put down €80-100 to buy another whistle, now that's the question.

[pancelticpiper]

Sounds great Madman!

"Lurid" LOL

I'd love to get one with a black or clear head, in D.

You're right that "in the flesh" (or at least in the video) the head shape doesn't look as recorder-like.

About Seattle snow, I remember some years back when Seattle got a massive amount of snow and it shut down the city. I'm in Southern California and it was big news down here.

My son attended Central Washington where snow is SOP, on the other side of Snoqualmie Pass not so much!

[MadmanWithaWhistle]

Here's a fun little cross-section; this whistle visually looked indistinguishable from the really good ones, and my caliper didn't show any significant differences externally.

This whistle made no sound other than a thin, quiet series of overtones.

You can see in the highlighted areas that a layer alignment issue created roughness early on in the windway I couldn't sand out completely, but the real killer is the divergence at the windway exit, caused by poor orientation strategy while printing. Having the crispest possible 90deg angle at the windway floor and windway exit face seems to be essential for this configuration of whistle.

It's by far the strangest problem I've run into. Usually even a deformed whistle plays (and sometimes quite well), but not even getting a BAD tone out of a whistle that visually resembles the ideal is a new one for me.

I changed the printing orientation to fix the warpage, and outset the windway face slightly so I can sand it beyond the rounding of that corner caused by the loss of resolution.

I use a convergent-divergent air path originally inspired by what I remembered of the DeLavel rocket nozzle (I was a big Rocket Boys fan, if you recall that memoir by Homer Hickam), and later discovered this approach was also used by some recorder makers. I've seen whistles use convergent windways but I've never seen a convergent-divergent one.

Anyway, what it does is increase the speed of the air at the windway exit relative to the speed of the breath, which makes for very responsive player feedback. My theory on the divergent portion (the airblade cut) is that it creates an area of lower pressure at the distal portion of the airblade, which helps to quickly dissipate spent vortexes after they are shed from the splitting edge.

(This, as with everything, may be entirely incorrect.)

What I do notice, though, is the combination of the extended ramp and the divergent air path seem to create a "two stage" effect in the player feedback. The first octave is loud and resonant at relatively low pressure, but the high octave seems to engage an additional element that stabilizes at a relatively higher pressure than I'd expect. It's still nowhere near a stiff blower, but it has the effect of helping to correct the octave disparity inherent to cylindrical instruments. The best way I can describe it is that where a typical whistle has an "ideal tone pressure" and an "ideal tuning pressure" in the second octave, where the tuning pressure may be greater than the tone pressure, in this case the gap between the two is quite reduced, making for both better tuning and better volume balance.

Again, I can't be sure that some other combination of factors is causing this, but it's what I immediately noticed after the addition of the ramp and divergence. One of the articles I'm going to post is about my "whistle testbed," a whistle where I could put in different mouthpieces, blades etc on the same head for comparison of factors.