Please tell me if it would be helpful to know, even if I can't do it well, in light of my thoughts on this:Mr.Gumby wrote:We could probably get into something lengthy about the intricacies of ornamentation but I am not sure that would be helpfull.
My interest lies in what may be an incorrect assumption, I'm willing to be set straight if I'm wrong, but I likely heard it from somewhere that I considered a good source of info, so it's stuck. Here's some of the stuff going around in my head about it: With regard to getting the sound right, you have to be able to tell the accent notes, so you can breathe in the right places, and get the timing correct. If I take away a note, I should be careful to not take away from the tune, I can turn a triplet into a roll, or vice versa, and I can skip a note to breathe so long as it doesn't interrupt the flow of the tune. Similarly phrasing can be changed and you still get the same tune, you demonstrated that with the ending of Cronin's up above being different from the one I played. I've found this in other tunes as well, and am somewhat mixing phrases from different settings of tunes, to still play the same tune, but just with a little variation. Any that I learn, I listen to many different variations. I think it helps my brain to be able to place notes, and some things just sound like they belong. I don't expect everyone who plays the same tune to play it the same way, or even with all the same notes, and that's what I'm finding.
But with ornamentation, putting it in or leaving it out, does create a style, and you note some good ones there. I love that West along the Road you shared, and it's on my to learn list now! But I do think that some people I've listened to, playing the same tune, accent some notes that just sound off. It could be personal preference, but even a bodhran player knows you change what you accent when striking the skin, I think it's similar when you're playing a jig, vs a reel. I know that you need to keep the rhythm going, so as not to wreck the tune, and there's a bit of a trick to that as well, similar to the breathing. I want to learn that part of it, and in listening to tunes that are available, it's easy, because you can see where players are putting accents, even if they're choosing slightly differently than each other, you can say, oh, accenting this note sounds good, (or not accenting) but when you come across someone who doesn't have the right feel, it's likely a combination of the wrong rhythm and/or accenting the wrong step. Choosing a tune I can't find any examples of, like that Cronin's above, means that I am trying to learn the feel of the tune, and not just throw stuff into it to trick it out, but to learn where it should be, and shouldn't be, so that the tune itself is still working. Again, I could be wrong, and some people may enjoy the players who just throw on ornaments anywhere they feel like it without thinking about this, but I'm a sensitive sort and think I'm finding a pattern at least amongst the players who I prefer to listen to compared to the ones I don't.
No, my fingers can't play well yet, but I believe training my brain to pick up the differences will only help once they can. I'm sure you've heard people who are quite popular on youtube play a tune, with all the correct notes, but still feel like they just aren't doing it justice? Or someone who plays a tune straight, without swing? This is the stuff I want to work towards getting, and I'm stuck at the moment needing to judge players I find online, and knowing who to discard and who to listen to so that once my fingers and brain work together, I'll have a good feeling in my head for the tunes. (It also goes back to why I think learning on the whistle is good no matter what instrument one picks up later)
It's easier to learn things slowly as one goes along, than to unlearn and relearn something later once you've set in stone what you probably shouldn't have done. (I'm currently working to try to keep a hold of the whistle with either my pinky or something, because while I can play without it, the faster I go, the harder it is to play the notes well)
It's also why I listen to a lot of tunes that I am not yet interested in playing, and listen to instruments that I'm not interested in playing, and love to hear different variations of the tunes. I feel like it educates my brain along the way. If I'm well off base, or if this is something you think you can't learn as you go along, but only once you've arrived, then I'll work only on arriving. But if you do have any direction at the moment I'm a sponge, and am soaking up information to put to use later, and to recognise in others in the meantime.
So with regards to that particular question of mine on which note to cut... It's simply me trying to play the jig and have it still sound like a jig. I can get there without the ornament yes, but I want to learn how to not ruin the feeling. I'm not even looking at which is the easy one, I already know that for myself. I know that basic accents on 6/8 time are on 1and4, but that's not all there is to it, as there are some rather handy players who play differently, and there are some that change from first part to second part which they pick. Were this a world where the only people who I could find playing, all knew this instinctively, then I could just follow anyone, because I can't just throw an ornament anywhere and have it sound quite right, even if I couldn't put my finger on it as to why not.
Unless there's no such thing as discordant accenting, then I'm just finding some players who I dislike I guess and should be more tolerant, this could simply be a matter of my opinion being wrong.
I gather I shouldn't be asking questions that are beyond my ability though? I know I'm new, and asking for information that is more advanced than my current level. It's a habit of mine that sometimes annoys people, but my brain just doesn't stop questioning things. Sometimes it spills out of my mouth or my fingertips. I'd rather be caught in an incorrect presumption and fix faulty reasoning beforehand, otherwise I worry I'll have a few years of either taking some bad advice or ignoring some good because I didn't ask.