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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 1:59 am 
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That's all right; the peanut gallery's not doing so well, either, so introductions are in order. :wink:


That calls for a bit of a reply.

The answer to the OP's question was such that a straight reply would seem like a message from the Ministry of stating the bleeding obvious, the Lark in the morning is such a wellknown tune that in my mind anybody with even the slightest interest in Irish music would have heard it.

So I searched for an image with the terms 'lark in the morning', hoping to find a reference that would give the answer in a roundabout way, without leaving the OP hanging, as it were. Ideally something that would show the full title in the link when hovering over the image. There wasn't really a suitable candidate, unfortunately, this image though refereed to a video of the tune by some band or other. So I used that, the original plan having failed, while knowing the reference would be too obtuse to come across and showing a none bog standard type of lark to boot. But then again, I didn't want to lead the OP to the Skylark, a different tune altogether.

Last night just before sunset I was on the bog at the the top of 'our' road. Some years for some reason the bogcotton is extremely abundant and this is one of those years. I wanted to get a few pics of the stuff backlit by the setting sun. And I wanted an excuse to get out for a little while, that too. It was lovely and quiet, a beautiful evening, cuckoos calling and several larks singing in the air. Skylarks.

That's my story anyway.

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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 2:45 am 
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That seems to be the song. Thanks a lot!

But the backing/rhythm seems to be slightly different in every version.

Does anyone know if the backing/rhythm has a name on its own?

Regards


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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 6:52 am 
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It will (should) be slightly different in every version because it's trad, not formal composition...

It's a jig, which means bars (measures) of two beats subdividing into threes. Aka compound duple time. It basically goes 1 & a 2 & a | 1 & a 2 & a etc. and exactly how you do or don't accompany that is up to you.

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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 7:33 am 
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Is this a jig too?

https://youtu.be/oxZlJGtFGcw?t=15

To put this in perspective: I'm actually hunting for songs that sound like this, but are older (pre 2000).


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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 7:36 am 
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It's the same basic rhythm, but way slower.

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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2020 11:12 am 
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Thank you.

Next question can anyone tell me if Lift The Wings from Riverdance

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwJOWEb22_E

Is inspired by a classic irish or celtic tune? If yes, does it have a name?

Thanks


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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2020 12:08 pm 
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Desperado wrote:
Thank you.

Next question can anyone tell me if Lift The Wings from Riverdance

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwJOWEb22_E

Is inspired by a classic irish or celtic tune? If yes, does it have a name?

Thanks

Not to my knowledge. Like the rest of Riverdance, it's composed by Bill Whelan.

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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 1:19 am 
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Ok, how about this:

I cannot pinpoint exactly why but this sounds totally celtic/irish to me (especially the latter part):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0-iM7bxm6o


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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 1:30 am 
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Treasure Hunter G Soundtrack by Squaresoft. Compossed by Hitoshi Sakimoto


Completely unlike any Irish music I ever heard. But does it matter if that is what you like?

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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 1:59 am 
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Mr.Gumby wrote:
Quote:
Treasure Hunter G Soundtrack by Squaresoft. Compossed by Hitoshi Sakimoto


Completely unlike any Irish music I ever heard. But does it matter if that is what you like?


Not in my case. I didn't mention it in this thread I think, but actually I'm a video game music hunter. I try to find possible inspirations of famous video game music soundtracks from real world music and document them in a blog

https://www.destructoid.com/blogs/PhilsPhindings/

I think there are several composers who got heavily inspired by irish/celtic music and I try to find pieces and structures that sound like game music pieces I know.


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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 7:49 am 
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With all due respect, these are composed pieces, just as much as a movie soundtrack, musical theatre production, or Viennese symphony. The composer may draw from another idiom, like Thomas Newman drew from Indian idioms for Best Exotic Marigold Hotel, Claude Debussy drew from Balinese gamelan, Antonin Dvorak drew from African American folk music for Symphony No. 9, or Joseph Haydn drew from Austrian folk music. A composer may arrange or deliberately quote an existing traditional piece, as Aaron Copland did with Simple Gifts, and as movie soundtracks do now and then. Beyond that, if you can draw a direct line from the composition to some other specific piece of music, then either the composer isn't doing their job, or you are imagining things.


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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 9:26 am 
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Sure. And I want to document such potential draws for video games. Because I care about where the stuff I care about comes from. Is there a problem with this?


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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 12:14 pm 
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In this thread, I see you asking for specific tunes that have been copied, not just general influences. I suggest that these direct connections, between composed music and specific traditional tunes, probably don't exist.


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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 12:25 pm 
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Tunborough wrote:
I suggest that these direct connections, between composed music and specific traditional tunes, probably don't exist.

In the unlikely event that they do, it's probably so piecemeal as to be untraceable; as with any musical idiom, there will be motifs that are revisited in many different tunes. And there's a huge difference between mood and construction.

We recently had another member on the same quest. He soon found that his search was fruitless, because he was essentially on the wrong trail. We're not trying to block anyone's way; it's just that there's no answering these questions in the way that they're framed.

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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 12:43 pm 
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Tunborough wrote:
In this thread, I see you asking for specific tunes that have been copied, not just general influences. I suggest that these direct connections, between composed music and specific traditional tunes, probably don't exist.



Ok, say you have a composer who is known to like jazz. So you dig into your jazz collection and you find 5-6 pieces that have a sample that resembles a famous song of said composer a lot. It is not far fetched to think that the composer might have heard one or more of those pieces an decided to use the sample, especially if everyone already uses it. It is not a quote in the sense you listed it (as the composer did not name a particular origin) nor is it merely a stylistic resemblance. It would probably be considered a genre standard, but even for genre standards you can try to find out how far back the standard goes and that means you try looking for earlier pieces that have said melody. Now, if I ask for particular songs it's because I have a starting point and if this song has a history of covering I want to go back this history as far as possible before I start searching in the breadth.

Btw there are some interviews with these composers where they name particular sections of particular songs as direct inspirement for their own songs without indication in-game that these are supposed to be deliberate quotes (probably because, as mentioned above, the samples are usually genre standards).


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