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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 10:38 am 
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PB+J wrote:
Of course the curly-wig dance competitions are only loosely "traditional" to begin with.

Is that what the competitions are called? :really:

I would think that some folks would be offended. :twisted:


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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 11:53 am 
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I actually have no idea what they are called--I know very little of that world.

Most of the twitter comments on her little "remix" praised it very strongly, and many of them as it it was new, but as I mentioned a connection between irish dance and african American dance has been pointed out before.

Praise came especially from Whelan, of Riverdance, and now Riverdance has offered her a gig, so I guess they see something there rather than just "virginia catching up".

I thought her choreography was clever and her execution strong


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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 12:54 pm 
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benhall.1 wrote:
Katharine wrote:
Is there a link to the video in question? It may be an issue with my browser

It's your browser.

As to the rest of your post, I think you're overblowing it. She's young, talented, unfortunately attractive (according to you, by the seem of it). It's nice. Why worry about anything else?


What am I "overblowing"? Did I say I had a problem with it? Did I say it's unfortunate if she's attractive? It would, however, be unfortunate if the only reason people thought it worth watching is if she's attractive.


PB+J wrote:
Try this

https://youtu.be/mb7T1O5m77o


She's not really "scantily clad." She's wearing shorts and a t-shirt, white socks and heeled dancing shoes. She's an attractive woman, but lots of young people are attractive and I don't hold it against them!

She clearly spent a lot of time mastering that form of competition irish dancing, and the adaptation to hip hop is well done


I wasn't referring to her with "scantily clad." I was referring to the post I quoted in my reply, which talks about people allegedly being drawn to classical music because of attractive musicians... who are going to be missing a lot if that's the only music they'll partake of or the only reason they'll give it the time of day. The poster wondered what was wrong with this phenomena, and that's it. If someone misses out on Pavarotti or Perlman or Heifetz because they're only going for musicians who are easy on the eyes, or if they spend more time thinking about a musician's looks than the musical talent that person put a lot of hard work into, it's a shame.

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 7:59 am 
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Katharine wrote:
chas wrote:
I'm all for anything that preserves an art.

I'm more into classical music than ITM. The last show I went to was maybe a year ago, and my group and I (ages 57-64) were the youngest there except for a couple who looked to be high-school or college students. I think unless the classical world embraces some sort of modernization, the current generation may be the last that gets to appreciate it outside of the elite. It's expensive to send 80 musicians plus a high-priced soloist onto a stage for maybe a handful of shows. One thing that's often debated is sex appeal. A couple of decades ago, Ofra Harnoy was an up-and-coming cellist, very talented, and as it happens, very beautiful. Every time she was mentioned, there was some grumbling about her using sex appeal to sell tickets. There's currently a young pianist named Yuja Wang who actually IS doing that -- she wears very skimpy outfits. But if you go to Youtube, there are loads of hits to her playing (quite well) concerti, with the titles something like "Yuja Wang plays Tchaikovsky in short shorts." If it gets people listening, it's good with me; maybe some of them will get hooked and start buying tickets.

The problem is, I'm sure there are plenty of talented artists out there who don't happen to be young, attractive, scantily-clad women... and I don't feel their music is any less worth listening to because they're not "eye candy." On a CD or record or MP3, who knows, anyway?


My point was that if it hooks someone on the music, it's good, not if it hooks someone on the shorts. If someone's hooked on the music, they'll listen to other musicians.

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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2020 2:07 pm 
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She is dancing, not playing music. It's a dance performance. Dance is about body movement so performers are often scantily clad (in ballet for example). If that is an issue it is one that goes way beyond one lassie on youtube.

Unless she got that good by teaching herself I guess she has the support of people who know a lot about that sort of Irish dancing.


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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 6:49 am 
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david_h wrote:
She is dancing, not playing music. It's a dance performance. Dance is about body movement so performers are often scantily clad (in ballet for example). If that is an issue it is one that goes way beyond one lassie on youtube.

Unless she got that good by teaching herself I guess she has the support of people who know a lot about that sort of Irish dancing.


When was this discussion ever about what she was wearing? Per the OP, people are angry because she has apparently "sullied" Irish dance with modernity.

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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 8:49 am 
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Katharine wrote:
david_h wrote:
She is dancing, not playing music. It's a dance performance. Dance is about body movement so performers are often scantily clad (in ballet for example). If that is an issue it is one that goes way beyond one lassie on youtube.

Unless she got that good by teaching herself I guess she has the support of people who know a lot about that sort of Irish dancing.


When was this discussion ever about what she was wearing? Per the OP, people are angry because she has apparently "sullied" Irish dance with modernity.


I want to repeat the vast, vast majority of people who commented on her were very positive, and found her performance delightful. A small minority found it distasteful--some because it "sullied tradition," some because she was "non-Irish." But overwhelmingly the comments were both favorable and welcoming.

It's interesting to me on many levels, partly because you could argue there's nothing "traditional" about the kind of competition dancing she does at a high level, but at the same time it's a discipline with roots in tradition and she's very aware of that and committed to it.

Personally I think she did a particularly nice job of getting the two thing to work together, but that's a matter of taste. She did another little "remix" here: https://twitter.com/Morrghan/status/1259654634177736709

Not sure if that will be visible. I don't think it works quite as well


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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 9:01 am 
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Katharine wrote:
When was this discussion ever about what she was wearing? Per the OP, people are angry because she has apparently "sullied" Irish dance with modernity.
After you introduced the term "scantily-clad women"
On Sat May 09, 2020 7:24 pm Katharine wrote:
The problem is, I'm sure there are plenty of talented artists out there who don't happen to be young, attractive, scantily-clad women...


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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 9:33 am 
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How she’s dressed, the music being danced to
or her age are completely immaterial.
A huge factor in the negativity being sent her
way is simply bare faced racism.
Rufus Harley, the great jazz musician
who played the scotch pipes went
through the same bullschitt.

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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2020 8:24 pm 
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david_h wrote:
Katharine wrote:
When was this discussion ever about what she was wearing? Per the OP, people are angry because she has apparently "sullied" Irish dance with modernity.
After you introduced the term "scantily-clad women"
On Sat May 09, 2020 7:24 pm Katharine wrote:
The problem is, I'm sure there are plenty of talented artists out there who don't happen to be young, attractive, scantily-clad women...

Indeed I did, in response to someone else who posted about classical music, and people who are interested in it because of-- wait for it-- young, attractive, scantily-clad women. Never was any part of that about the dancer in question, and I'm baffled why so many people ignored the fact that I was (quite obviously, since I quoted it) responding to a post about something completely-different that was a side topic illustrating other uproars over the arts. Which you ignored, as well as my explanation to the *last* person who took exception to my response to that post because they apparently also completely ignored the fact that I quoted and responded to a particular post about something else entirely.
Katharine wrote:
I wasn't referring to her with "scantily clad." I was referring to the post I quoted in my reply, which talks about people allegedly being drawn to classical music because of attractive musicians... who are going to be missing a lot if that's the only music they'll partake of or the only reason they'll give it the time of day. The poster wondered what was wrong with this phenomena, and that's it. If someone misses out on Pavarotti or Perlman or Heifetz because they're only going for musicians who are easy on the eyes, or if they spend more time thinking about a musician's looks than the musical talent that person put a lot of hard work into, it's a shame.


Especially since that was never the issue with the dance video, anyway-- the only aspect of her appearance that may have been an issue for some people (which I actually *did* point out) is that she is black. The main problem people apparently found with it was that she was doing Irish dance to modern music (which I'm sure has been done by many others before her yet was there this outrage?). Otherwise, what she looks like was never mentioned, by me or anyone else.

As I said in that very post that I was unable to view the video in question, then I wouldn't have had any clue what the dancer looked like or what she was wearing, would I have? So, how could I have been referring to her?

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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 11:39 am 
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Katharine wrote:
As I said in that very post that I was unable to view the video in question ...

It should be abundantly clear that this cannot be ignored. But it should also be abundantly clear, Katharine, that it got buried under the weight of your attendant musings and observations.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:21 am 
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RTE's 'Nationwide' did an item on this dancer : here

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:40 am 
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Mr.Gumby wrote:
RTE's 'Nationwide' did an item on this dancer : here



Quite nicely done!


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:41 am 
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She nailed the beats, her dance worked perfectly with the music. What's not to like?

The Riverdance music is much further removed from Irish music than the music she used.

Much of the Riverdance music I saw was obviously lifted from Bulgarian dance music, not only non-Irish but non-Celtic, Slavic in fact.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:14 am 
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An interesting fact to add is that she grew up in Richmond, VA, which was the capital of the Confederacy during the Civil War, and which is maybe most famous for "monument row," a set of monuments to confederate leaders which are just now being removed or possibly being removed. Richmond is the state capitol and was well known for "FFV's," "first families of Virginia," meaning wealthy and socially prominent white families of long residence. Modern Richmond has a thriving arts scene and as the piece shows has repurposed a lot of its old infrastructure


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