A question for flute makers... reasons for "biased" region.
-
- Posts: 81
- Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:07 pm
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Tell us something.: Learning more about flutes here, and looking for good makers. Also used instrument exchange is very convenient.
- Location: CA
A question for flute makers... reasons for "biased" region.
Hi, this is just out of curiosity...
I have two Blackwood flutes from different makers (both reputed), and they clearly are biased towards different regions on the octave. One sings very well and feels natural in the upper register, and the other is more geared for the lower. Just with the naked eye, I don't see any noticeable difference in the embouchure size, or the bore width, so wondering what factors influence these outcomes? (I am not an advanced player by any means so my playing ability maybe a factor too).
Thanks!
I have two Blackwood flutes from different makers (both reputed), and they clearly are biased towards different regions on the octave. One sings very well and feels natural in the upper register, and the other is more geared for the lower. Just with the naked eye, I don't see any noticeable difference in the embouchure size, or the bore width, so wondering what factors influence these outcomes? (I am not an advanced player by any means so my playing ability maybe a factor too).
Thanks!
- kkrell
- Posts: 4834
- Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 6:00 pm
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Tell us something.: Mostly producer of the Wooden Flute Obsession 3-volume 6-CD 7-hour set of mostly player's choice of Irish tunes, played mostly solo, on mostly wooden flutes by approximately 120 different mostly highly-rated traditional flute players & are mostly...
- Location: Los Angeles
- Contact:
Re: A question for flute makers... reasons for "biased" regi
Maybe head cork position needs adjusting for best tone & ease of play?
International Traditional Music Society, Inc.
A non-profit 501c3 charity/educational public benefit corporation
Wooden Flute Obsession CDs (3 volumes, 6 discs, 7 hours, 120 players/tracks)
https://www.worldtrad.org
A non-profit 501c3 charity/educational public benefit corporation
Wooden Flute Obsession CDs (3 volumes, 6 discs, 7 hours, 120 players/tracks)
https://www.worldtrad.org
- jemtheflute
- Posts: 6969
- Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 6:47 am
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Location: N.E. Wales, G.B.
- Contact:
Re: A question for flute makers... reasons for "biased" regi
I agree with Kevin. Check your stopper positions.
I respect people's privilege to hold their beliefs, whatever those may be (within reason), but respect the beliefs themselves? You gotta be kidding!
My YouTube channel
My FB photo albums
Low Bb flute: 2 reels (audio)
Flute & Music Resources - helpsheet downloads
My YouTube channel
My FB photo albums
Low Bb flute: 2 reels (audio)
Flute & Music Resources - helpsheet downloads
-
- Posts: 731
- Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2003 8:06 pm
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Re: A question for flute makers... reasons for "biased" regi
Since you aren't getting many responses from makers I'll toss out my more naive opinion and let the hive mind correct me if I'm way off. As well as the cork adjustment recommended there are quite an number of differences that are not visible to the naked eye. Even if the body of the flute and the embouchure looks the same to the naked eye, the bore may have a different angle inside, even subtle differences in the hole size can change things, as well has how they are undercut. As well there is a lot more going on with the embouchure hole. It is undercut at very specific angle chosen my the maker with how the bore was made and the holes cut and undercut in mind. So, yeah, it's complicated.
- DrPhill
- Posts: 1610
- Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:58 am
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 10
- Location: None
Re: A question for flute makers... reasons for "biased" regi
Slightly off-topic, but how sensitive is this adjustment? millimeters? Tenths of millimeters?jemtheflute wrote:I agree with Kevin. Check your stopper positions.
I am slowly getting a more reliable tone and have generally left this adjustment well alone, but I did find that it had drifted slightly. Probably just handling, accidental twisting etc. Playing did seem to get easier after setting back to the recommended setting but it was only a millimeter or so out, so my erratic embouchure probably accounts for more than the cork position.
Phill
One does not equal two. Not even for very large values of one.
One does not equal two. Not even for very large values of one.
- Sedi
- Posts: 993
- Joined: Sun May 01, 2016 6:54 am
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Tell us something.: Practice, practice, practice. You're never too old to learn.
Keep on fluting.
---u---o-o-o--o-o-o--
-----------------------
Re: A question for flute makers... reasons for "biased" regi
Tiny changes in the design can have a huge effect on the sound. Just changing the stopper position one millimeter will have a noticable effect on the sound, tuning of the octaves, etc. A half millimeter change in the hole diameter of the tone holes will have an effect on tuning and response, etc. A good flute should perform evenly across two octaves (maybe even three but not really needed for ITM). That means, an easy 2nd octave and a booming first octave when you want/need it. Much depends on the player of course but some things cannot be overcome even with the best technique.
- DrPhill
- Posts: 1610
- Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:58 am
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 10
- Location: None
Re: A question for flute makers... reasons for "biased" regi
Thanks Sedi, maybe I will keep an eye on it - though my inconsistency would easily drown out small changes.
Phill
One does not equal two. Not even for very large values of one.
One does not equal two. Not even for very large values of one.
- Sedi
- Posts: 993
- Joined: Sun May 01, 2016 6:54 am
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Tell us something.: Practice, practice, practice. You're never too old to learn.
Keep on fluting.
---u---o-o-o--o-o-o--
-----------------------
Re: A question for flute makers... reasons for "biased" regi
Not so sure, I think you would notice it if you changed the position just one millimeter. Even when not playing at a professional level. The interesting thing is that the position of the stopper has multiple effects. Move it further out and it will make the low D more booming but it might at the same time weaken other notes and the end of the second octave will go flat. So far I don't really know why some notes become weaker when moving the stopper further out. I think it might be because the start and endpoint of the soundwave of notes is moved.
- Maihcol
- Posts: 168
- Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:06 pm
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Tell us something.: I have been selling my flutes since 2010 and I have moved back to Ireland from Brazil and I am now based in County Offaly.
- Location: County Offaly, Ireland
- Contact:
Re: A question for flute makers... reasons for "biased" regi
"...One sings very well and feels natural in the upper register..."tradlad123 wrote:Hi, this is just out of curiosity...
I have two Blackwood flutes from different makers (both reputed), and they clearly are biased towards different regions on the octave. One sings very well and feels natural in the upper register, and the other is more geared for the lower. Just with the naked eye, I don't see any noticeable difference in the embouchure size, or the bore width, so wondering what factors influence these outcomes? (I am not an advanced player by any means so my playing ability maybe a factor too).
Thanks!
Apart from the stopper position, this part of your description also suggests this particular flute could have a small leak weakening the bottom register. In which case, the upper register would tend to be be less affected. Try a suck test on the head and barrel, without separating them, by placing the palm of your hand over the open end of the barrel and sucking air through the embouchure. You should be able to hold a decent vacuum for a count of 10 seconds. If not, check whether the slide is properly greased as recommended by the maker. You can also check the stopper for a leak by separating head from barrel and repeating the suck test. Joints can leak, as can the wooden body itself, through small cracks, also keypads, etc.
Garry
Garry Somers Flutes: http://www.somers-flutes.com
-
- Posts: 81
- Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:07 pm
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Tell us something.: Learning more about flutes here, and looking for good makers. Also used instrument exchange is very convenient.
- Location: CA
Re: A question for flute makers... reasons for "biased" regi
Garry, thanks, that is something I never though of! Will check and hopefully won't find any leaks....
Re: A question for flute makers... reasons for "biased" regi
I have an antique Moennig that is quiet in the lowest notes with the original headjoint. When I play it with an Abell headjoint, it has much more volume across all registers. The Moennig headjoint plays in tune, so the cork is probably in the right position. I guess in this case the difference is more headjoint than flute.
- pancelticpiper
- Posts: 5312
- Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:25 am
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Tell us something.: Playing Scottish and Irish music in California for 45 years.
These days many discussions are migrating to Facebook but I prefer the online chat forum format. - Location: WV to the OC
Re: A question for flute makers... reasons for "biased" regi
This can be taken to mean that you're talking about two different things:tradlad123 wrote:
...different regions on the octave...the upper register...the lower.
1) different regions of the same octave, say, the difference in voicing between E/F# and A/B.
2) difference between the low octave and the 2nd octave.
Which do you mean? Thanks!
Richard Cook
c1980 Quinn uilleann pipes
1945 Starck Highland pipes
Goldie Low D whistle
c1980 Quinn uilleann pipes
1945 Starck Highland pipes
Goldie Low D whistle
-
- Posts: 81
- Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:07 pm
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Tell us something.: Learning more about flutes here, and looking for good makers. Also used instrument exchange is very convenient.
- Location: CA
Re: A question for flute makers... reasons for "biased" regi
Richard, I meant difference between lower/upper octave. For eg. it plays very sweet in the upper octave but the lowest D is not the strongest, the other flute, on the other hand, does not have as nice a tone in the upper octave (which may be my playing too), but has a honking lowest D.
- Sedi
- Posts: 993
- Joined: Sun May 01, 2016 6:54 am
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Tell us something.: Practice, practice, practice. You're never too old to learn.
Keep on fluting.
---u---o-o-o--o-o-o--
-----------------------
Re: A question for flute makers... reasons for "biased" regi
Another thought -- the size of the holes could be a factor. Bigger holes can make the second octave slightly harder at least for the last two or three notes.
Re: A question for flute makers... reasons for "biased" regi
This could be the difference tween a Pratten and a Rudall. The former tend to have a booming low D. The Rudalls often have a sweet upper register but you sometimes have to develop by yourself the low D (e.g. lift your chin, play long tones). You can get a powerful low D but you may have to learn how.