It is currently Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:37 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 54 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
Author Message
 
PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:36 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 01, 2016 6:54 am
Posts: 686
Location: Bischberg/Bavaria/Germany
The problem is however that everybody blows a whistle differently and a certain note only sounds correctly at a certain air speed. So even the most well tuned whistle can sound very out of tune in the hands of a beginner, who blows a whistle with an incorrect air pressure. Some whistles (even good ones) can vary a note 30 cents sharp or flat at different air speed. It gets worse when looking at flutes where you can influence the note by partially covering the embouchure hole. So even with a CNC machine you cannot produce a "perfect" whistle.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:31 am
Posts: 5488
Location: the Back of Beyond
Quote:
So even with a CNC machine you cannot produce a "perfect" whistle.


I think Arthury's thought is more towards producing whistles fully consistent from one to the next. You obviously still have to learn to play them to make them sound well.

Not sure though Arthury realises two of his whistles were produced using CNC technique.

_________________
My brain hurts

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:06 pm
Posts: 1711
Location: just outside Xanadu
Thing is, with whistles as well as flutes, part of musicianship is being in touch with your instrument. Particularly with flutes, a well cut embouchure will 'lead to a correct manner of blowing'. An example would be the Olwells. I believe the same for whistles.

Bob

_________________
Not everything you can count, counts. And not everything that counts, can be counted

The Expert's Mind has few possibilities.
The Beginner's mind has endless possibilities.
Shunryu Suzuki, Roshi


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:43 pm
Posts: 43
Location: Seattle, WA
Mr.Gumby wrote:
[...]
Not sure though Arthury realises two of his whistles were produced using CNC technique.


Yes, the whistle-makers who can produce whistles with less variations in the each model are probably using CNC machining and I think Mr. Burke is using that.

_________________
Mk Pro low D | Goldie low D | Chieftain high D & alto A | Burke high {D, E} alto {B, G} | Freeman C | Dixon Pro high D


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:21 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:31 am
Posts: 5488
Location: the Back of Beyond
arthury wrote:
and I think Mr. Burke is using that.


That, irrefutably, came up on your Abell thread, not too long ago.

Phil Hardy is often mentioned in the context of CNC production as well but I don't know anything much about his whistles and will have to go on what is said on this forum.

_________________
My brain hurts

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:25 am
Posts: 4671
Location: WV to the OC
There aren't many makers where I've been able to try a large enough number of their products to get a sense of the variability.

With MK, for example, I've owned a half-dozen different Low Ds, and though they all shared characteristics that set MKs apart from other Low Ds yet there was clear variation between them; no two played exactly alike.

With Burke, I've owned 20 or so in various keys ranging from Low D to High D and several in between and they played remarkably alike. Even the Burkes intended to be different, such as their wide-bore and narrow-bore High Ds, were quite similar.

With Dixon, at a trade show I got to play around 20 of the same model in the same key (High D) and there was variation from whistle to whistle, a similar range to that of the MK.

With Generation, I've tried hundreds over the last 40 years, and they've varied tremendously. Most telling was trying a new box of 24 High Ds straight from the factory, a snapshot of Generation's apparent lack of QA.

I'm reminded of an old band-mate who worked at a guitar shop back in the 1980s which carried $100 Yamaha acoustic guitars. "I try every one that goes through the shop" he explained. "I reckon that sooner or later they'll screw up and make a great one."

They did. He bought it.

_________________
Richard Cook
1978 Quinn uilleann pipes
1945 Starck Highland pipes
Goldie Low D whistle


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 8:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:25 am
Posts: 4671
Location: WV to the OC
arthury wrote:
CNC machined... I guess the market is not large enough for such a company...artisan style production is frustrating to the consumer who is looking for a product that is consistently manufactured.


I haven't heard much about it in the whistle community, but in the Highland bagpipe community the use of CNC lathes is an ongoing controversy.

What happened was that a new maker came along with the new CNC technology and started making as many instruments in a week as the oldfashioned handmade one-man-operations were making in a year.

My opinion is that whether it's hand turned or CNC turned a bagpipe is only as good as the specs. There are old-school makers using poor specs, while the big CNC maker is using pretty good specs.

_________________
Richard Cook
1978 Quinn uilleann pipes
1945 Starck Highland pipes
Goldie Low D whistle


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:49 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:47 am
Posts: 894
Location: Surrey/Hants border, England
Why not use CNC, it will give consistent results, & should be cheaper than hand crafted.

There will always be someone who will pay for hand crafted, even if it is no better, just for the kudos.

_________________
Keith.
Trying to do justice to my various musical instruments.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:08 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:43 pm
Posts: 43
Location: Seattle, WA
pancelticpiper wrote:
arthury wrote:
what does timbre mean for whistle?


Timbre means the tone-colour independent of volume or other factors.

In the main it's the presence (to greater or lesser degrees) of specific harmonics.

It's the varying of the harmonics that allows us to distinguish different sorts of sounds, different musical instruments, one person's voice from another.

Then there's "dirt" in the tone, which I'm guessing would be noise rather than harmonics.


Along this definition, how would you describe the airy sound of the Panflut (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0WzW7BiKk8) ?
Some whistles have this characteristic while others that sounded like Recorders do not.
Is this airy quality also called the chiff?

_________________
Mk Pro low D | Goldie low D | Chieftain high D & alto A | Burke high {D, E} alto {B, G} | Freeman C | Dixon Pro high D


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 54 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 23 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.060s | 12 Queries | GZIP : On ]
(dh)