The 'Saxon stranger' is a common image for the colonial forces. Not some strange invention by Ennis.RenaissanceGuy wrote: "in the language of the Saxon." Saxon??
truckleehowe
- Mr.Gumby
- Posts: 6619
- Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:31 am
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Location: the Back of Beyond
Re: truckleehowe
My brain hurts
-
- Posts: 145
- Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:24 am
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 12
Re: truckleehowe
Almost literally, I think. In literary / intellectual circles anywhere in the British Isles, and more widely in Ireland itself, people would know exactly what Seamus meant by "Saxon" in this context..RenaissanceGuy wrote:Some of Séamus's folkloric storytelling flourishes couldn't have been meant to take literally.
For example, there's a recording of him playing a couple jigs, including Port an Bráthair. He explains that the title means The Reverend Brother's Jig... "in the language of the Saxon." Saxon??
- Mr.Gumby
- Posts: 6619
- Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:31 am
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Location: the Back of Beyond
Re: truckleehowe
Alternatively, and related, you can hear 'Sassenach' used in the same context.Driftwood wrote:Almost literally, I think. In literary / intellectual circles anywhere in the British Isles, and more widely in Ireland itself, people would know exactly what Seamus meant by "Saxon" in this context..
My brain hurts
- benhall.1
- Moderator
- Posts: 14810
- Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:21 pm
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Tell us something.: I'm a fiddler and, latterly, a fluter. I love the flute. I wish I'd always played it. I love the whistle as well. I'm blessed in having really lovely instruments for all of my musical interests.
- Location: Unimportant island off the great mainland of Europe
Re: truckleehowe
Plus, the English have always been described as Saxons - hence Scots 'sassenach' and Welsh 'seisnig' (or just plain 'seis').Mr.Gumby wrote:The 'Saxon stranger' is a common image for the colonial forces. Not some strange invention by Ennis.RenaissanceGuy wrote: "in the language of the Saxon." Saxon??
- RenaissanceGuy
- Posts: 227
- Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:00 am
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Tell us something.: I am interested in various forms of traditional and folk music. I've been interested in Uilleann pipes for many years. And now I'm finally learning them!
- Location: US West Coast
Re: truckleehowe
Yes, exactly my point. The known history of that tune indicates a thoroughly Irish background. There doesn't seem to be anything particularly English about it, and certainly not in the language of that title... Unless there's some other hidden story that Ennis knew.
- Mr.Gumby
- Posts: 6619
- Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:31 am
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Location: the Back of Beyond
Re: truckleehowe
The known history of that tune indicates a thoroughly Irish background.
The known history, a far as I know, if that Breathnach got it from John Potts and named it for Gildas, who had it before him. Which doesn't seem to suggest any further origin.
But Ennis was of ofcourse referring to the title in its English translation, in the language of the Saxon. I don't think there's more to it than that and it seems obvious enough to me.
My brain hurts
- RenaissanceGuy
- Posts: 227
- Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:00 am
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Tell us something.: I am interested in various forms of traditional and folk music. I've been interested in Uilleann pipes for many years. And now I'm finally learning them!
- Location: US West Coast
Re: truckleehowe
Thanks, that clarifies it. I was confused because I took the meaning in reverse... like how I might say something like "'Norman' means 'north man' in the language of the Franks" in my armchair history conversations.Mr.Gumby wrote:
The known history, a far as I know, if that Breathnach got it from John Potts and named it for Gildas, who had it before him. Which doesn't seem to suggest any further origin.
But Ennis was of ofcourse referring to the title in its English translation, in the language of the Saxon. I don't think there's more to it than that and it seems obvious enough to me.
Academic writers do seem to over-complicate things by trying to fit everything into a more formal frame of reference.Mr.Gumby wrote:I think calling this 'a poem' rather than something Séamus made up on the fly puts the writer on the wrong foot right from the start.An academic article by Lynnsey K. Weissenberger (who is also a fiddler and harpist) describes "truckly-how" as "the philosophical 'why' of the musical tradition."
- RenaissanceGuy
- Posts: 227
- Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:00 am
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Tell us something.: I am interested in various forms of traditional and folk music. I've been interested in Uilleann pipes for many years. And now I'm finally learning them!
- Location: US West Coast
Re: truckleehowe
Incidentally, Colin Harper, co-author of the "Wheels of the World" book, uploaded a recording of the Ash Grove performance to Youtube earlier this year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5g8MPawKz4
-
- Posts: 781
- Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:49 pm
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Tell us something.: If you flush your toilet 7 times whilst lilting "The Bucks of Oranmore", an apparition of one of the great pipers of old will appear in the mirror, you will be blessed with good reeds, but cursed with bad bags and bellows.
- Location: Alberta Canada
Re: truckleehowe
RenaissanceGuy wrote:Incidentally, Colin Harper, co-author of the "Wheels of the World" book, uploaded a recording of the Ash Grove performance to Youtube earlier this year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5g8MPawKz4
That’s the source where I quoted from, regarding the audience and Ennis.
Very neat stuff. Fun to listen to him sing “Ms. McGrath”
We musicians are enemies by disposition, so treat every musician you happen to meet, accordingly.
Tradition is not the worship of ashes but the preservation of the flame.
Tradition is not the worship of ashes but the preservation of the flame.
Re: truckleehowe
Is this true? I have a couple other recordings that feature the same guitarist, one in NY & the other Chicago. Where was the Ash Grove?The owner of the Ash Grove had reckoned an unaccompanied Séamus might be too much for his audience, and asked Country Al to help out.
On the topic of Seamus' Story telling, I had always liked that intro to Feidhlim Tonn Ri about roofs being thatched with buttermilk & birds living in old men's beards. It seemed so whimsical, yet also stood out a bit from the rest of the story. A good intro to hook you in. Years later though I had heard a recording of Joe Heaney talking about story telling & he used the exact same lines. Perhaps he get it from Seamus, but I don't know if there's anyway to be certain who got what from who. I've also heard Joe tell the story of the sick dad with his three daughters, 'Did the Rum Do, Da?' Although Joe lilted a different tune with it. They also both seem to have claimed composing the English translation of 'Cunnla' & if I remember correctly, I believe i've heard both seem to disparage the other with regards, saying things like "and don't believe anyone saying any different." Seems funny considering they both seemed to remain as friends & were even recorded singing it together.
It made me think there probably always was a lot of taking from contemporaries, but with a reluctance to acknowledgement with many. You do hear how many of the older players, like Bernard Delaney (https://livesofthepipers.com/1delaneybarney.html) became stingy with their repertoire.
- RenaissanceGuy
- Posts: 227
- Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:00 am
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Tell us something.: I am interested in various forms of traditional and folk music. I've been interested in Uilleann pipes for many years. And now I'm finally learning them!
- Location: US West Coast
Re: truckleehowe
It was in Los Angeles, big on the folk/blues/roots music scenes.chaos97 wrote:.... Where was the Ash Grove?
...
- Hans-Joerg
- Posts: 788
- Joined: Thu May 27, 2004 3:37 am
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
- Location: Germany, half an hour west of "Old Brunswick" (Braunschweig < Brunswieck)
Re: truckleehowe
The second story from that (double) LP:
https://sndup.net/934v
Does anybody have recordings of further Seamus-stories to post? I love them.
https://sndup.net/934v
Does anybody have recordings of further Seamus-stories to post? I love them.
-
- Posts: 633
- Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 3:12 am
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Location: centre France
Re: truckleehowe
Well,
of course there is 'Féidhm Tonn Ri's Castle' , perhaps only available on Vinyl ( Claddagh CC19) but a whole LP with the one long story and tunes in between who's titles are suggested by the story. I never hear people talk of this Seamus Ennis recording from 1977, perhaps it is not so significant to pipers.
My children loved this recording and my daughter has been looking for a CD or downloadable version to play to her children... I would be interested if anyone has a source.
of course there is 'Féidhm Tonn Ri's Castle' , perhaps only available on Vinyl ( Claddagh CC19) but a whole LP with the one long story and tunes in between who's titles are suggested by the story. I never hear people talk of this Seamus Ennis recording from 1977, perhaps it is not so significant to pipers.
My children loved this recording and my daughter has been looking for a CD or downloadable version to play to her children... I would be interested if anyone has a source.
- MichaelLoos
- Posts: 676
- Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:53 am
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Tell us something.: I'm here because I just wanted to change my location... but it turns out much more complicated than I thought. Do I already have the 100 required characters?
- Location: Klietz, Germany
Re: truckleehowe
You probably already know this record - he tells a little story to each of the songs and tunes:
https://www.discogs.com/Seamus-Ennis-Se ... er/1303431
https://www.discogs.com/Seamus-Ennis-Se ... er/1303431
- Mr.Gumby
- Posts: 6619
- Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:31 am
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Location: the Back of Beyond
Re: truckleehowe
I think the Leader lp is one that is locked in in the Bulmer estate and was never re-issued. It's a lovely one though. I even have two copies.I never hear people talk of this Seamus Ennis recording from 1977, perhaps it is not so significant to pipers.
'Do you want to play music to please yourself, or play music to please other people..' , now there's an issue to explore.
Interesting enough, looking at it now I realised the photo, by Rod Stradling, on the cover is from the same occasion as the one used for the Wandering Minstrel lp.
There are a fair few examples of Ennis going into stories going around on tapes. 'It's the hairy side out for tonight..'
My brain hurts