An Idea for the Forum

[moonlitnarwhal]

Hello everyone -

I felt re-inspired to share an idea I had a while back after reading the recent 'Jigs' discussion. As a fairly new whistle player myself interested in Irish music, but living far from it's source and the culture, I can relate to some of the challenges of really becoming familiar with the music and traditions, and how it can all be translated to the whistle - but it's been an incredible and challenging experience that I would not trade. I genuinely love learning to play a little ITM, and although I'm not very skilled and not especially gifted in music, listening and learning has been an incredible pursuit and practice.

Anyway, I've been thinking that this forum could be the perfect opportunity for those of us inclined to share our own approaches and insights on tunes together by posting our own interpretations of certain tunes. To clarify, perhaps someone could start by suggesting a tune from the Irish (or another) tradition, and we could post our own short recording (audio or video) of our personal interpretation - not as a performance, or chance to "shine," but just a simple sharing of how you might play it in your local session (or living room...).

Imagine what a powerful tool this could be - not with the intention to homogenize or standardize a tune setting, quite the opposite - this could be a chance to share our own techniques and subtle approaches to the same tune and, in the process, create an incredible resource for newer whistlers like myself to not only hear a specific tune being played on the whistle (which already exists all over YouTube), but to hear all the variation and creativity inherent to ITM (and other traditions) and for folks to discuss and ask specific questions.

I know posting a video of yourself playing on-line is about as initially appealing as getting kicked in the knee, but this doesn't have to become a chance to criticize every single difference we may have about a certain approach or someone's style. Instead this could be an opportunity to keep the the 'aural' traditions alive outside of Ireland and Europe, while recognizing we were all beginners at some point (and that each of us who play are somewhere along that 'spectrum' of learning and progression). Plus, in music more than anything else, only through listening could we ever hope to be on the same page in a discussion. The key (in my mind) is sharing our version of the same tune (perhaps with an ABC file if possible) since this would create an incredible chance to listen and learn.

Any takers?

I've never posted anything online myself, but I can start as this was my idea! Please keep in mind that I don't come from a musical background, I have never been to Ireland and live in Hawaii, and I've only been playing for about a year (plus this is my first instrument)! But I'm open to any constructive criticism, and I'd especially like to hear other approaches to the same tune (regardless of your experience level)!

Is there any way to post a video here besides a link to YouTube? And is anyone interested??

Rich

[kkrell]

There is already a Clips & Snips forum on this board, although it doesn't get much activity:
viewforum.php?f=7

There was also an effort to pull some of that sort of material off to another webiste:
http://www.tinwhistletunes.com/clipssnip/

[fatmac]

On both my harmonica & ukulele forums they have 'challenges', a theme or a couple of songs/tunes are posted, & anyone who wants to can post their attempt for others to see/hear. The ukelele normally has a theme each week, whilst my harmonica forum has two suggested songs/tunes a month.

I don't play ITM myself, but might be tempted to give it a go.

[Mr.Gumby]

It's not exactly a new idea.

Previously moderators firmly decided against it as far as I remember.

There are all sorts problems with the concept.

Do you want an assessment of your playing or just post it? There isn't really a point to just posting clips as learner clips do not provide any sort of a learning tool. If you do invite comment, all sorts of acrimony can ensue when comment is offered, especially if it's even slightly critical, no matter if it's done in good spirit. This can sour the atmosphere pretty quickly.

Experience shows that inevitably the few egos will take over, incessantly posting their latest efforts, constantly looking for validation. And that can grow tedious very quickly as well.

If you feel like posting clips, it's probably best to do it on some other platform, youtube perhaps or more dedicated sites. If you want proper feedback, it's better to book the odd lesson with someone who can give you informed pointers on how to improve. if you want to hear different interpretations to learn from, look at traditional players who are recognised stylists rather than strangers of unspecified experience on the internet.

[Nanohedron]

Previously moderators firmly decided against it as far as I remember.

But only for the reason below:

There is already a Clips & Snips forum on this board, although it doesn't get much activity:
viewforum.php?f=7

Mr.Gumby has laid out the pitfalls involved, and very well, so I'll underscore it: You can post to Clips and Snips, or you can post clips here - there's no restriction on that, either way - but bear in mind that most people really post clips to show their accomplishments rather than to solicit advice, which is fine, because we hope to encourage people. That said, we don't promote only blind support without qualification, either. Advice may follow whether you want it or not, and that is part of Chiff Life. As Mr.Gumby pointed out, if you have a thin skin for critique, you may not appreciate it even when it's well-meaning and meant to help you improve. I've seen times where people say they want advice, yet get upset anyway when they get what they asked for, rather than getting the unconditional pat on the back they had actually hoped for. It's never fun when it goes that way. In sum, be clear with yourself about your motivations, look before you leap, and go ahead and post clips if you're so inclined.

[moonlitnarwhal]

Okay, points taken.

I suppose my main intention was to hear various whistlers (from around the world really) interpret the same tune - I was hoping some insight or inspiration might follow, but I can see the potential pitfalls, and at this point in my own learning process I know that I have everything to learn yet, so criticism is not needed so much as good advice on technique. Certainly a lesson with a good teacher can offer that, and although listening to good recordings is obviously critical to learning any specific style, I just couldn't get over the fact that there are so many excellent, life-long whistlers here alongside so many motivated beginners who may not have ready access to skilled players.

All good though, starting to see the reality of the internet sink in - all too easy to tear someone done rather than lift someone up.

Rich

[Nanohedron]

Well, bear in mind, Rich, that when it comes to advice I draw a semantic line (perhaps arbitrary) between critique and criticism as modes of assessment. While both may focus on weak points, critique isn't confined to that; a critique may in fact be glowing. In advice, critique is constructive and instructive. Criticism, OTOH, is negative by definition. Critique says, "You need crisper ornaments," and hopefully goes further with advice on how to accomplish that, but at least you have something concrete to focus on, and that's a good thing. Criticism, OTOH, merely says, "Your ornaments are sub-par," and usually leaves it at that if you're lucky. Do you see the difference? It's an important one. While advice is acceptable, neither do we take kindly to people tearing each other down, but members here are usually pretty considerate when they do offer advice, and they deserve an attaboy for that.

The problem, really, is when well-meaning, instructive advice is taken badly. That's why I say be clear with yourself about your motivations.

[pancelticpiper]

The method Rich proposes for ITM is standard operating procedure for Studio Art courses.

In the lower-level courses the instructor might give out an assignment, all the students will produce their work, and then the students will bring in their work, hang it on the walls, and the class will critique all the work.

They're often called "crit classes".

Many generations of Art Majors have navigated, daily, the issues raised in above posts.

What makes it work is avoiding positive or negative opinions, which forces everyone to think analytically and discuss the work in a detached way.

[Steve Bliven]

One of the differences between crit classes and internet crits is that the former are generally done face to face with a professorial moderator. The internet, as we've seen, can sometimes be a difficult place for dialogue. Folks don't have to face the person receiving the crit, often are somewhat hidden behind mysterious pseudonyms and, due to the limited space for messages, can sometimes lead to misunderstandings (not to mention thread drift). At least it's not Twitter....

Just some thoughts.

Steve

[Nanohedron]

...often are somewhat hidden behind mysterious pseudonyms...

Whoever could you possibly mean...?

[Steve Bliven]

...often are somewhat hidden behind mysterious pseudonyms...

Whoever could you possibly mean...?

Couldn't be you. I just assumed your name is Nan O'Hedron.

Best wishes.

Steve (comfortable in his given name )

[pancelticpiper]

Points well taken Steve.

It never ceases to surprise me how somebody can take the most innocuous, well-intended comment and twist it around into something offensive.

If I were to say "I saw no red cars on the road this morning" sure enough somebody will chime in with "I'm tired of all this marginalizing and hate of red cars! I drive a red car and I love it!" and other such nonsense.