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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:07 am 
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benhall.1 wrote:
It took me ages to realise that there actually is a word - not in English, mind - that's spelt "curbside". I'd never come across that before. It doesn't make sense. What's it curbing? Sides?

Oh, it's English, all right: just not British English, by the look of things. In the US it has frequently to do with services, such as someone in the business of picking up your discarded items left for the purpose at the curb (kerb, in your tongue :wink: ); could be a knife sharpener making the rounds, or some kind of dispensary. "Curbside assistance" are words often paired, although further examples for the moment escape me. The main thing is that vehicles and proximity to you are implied, but you meet them as well, either out of circumstance or the briefest of Shank's Mare. It's considered a form of hit-and-run convenience.

OTOH, you could as well tell someone that since there's no room in the lot, they'll have to park curbside - which would mean on the street - and to curb their urge to throw a tantrum over it. As you can see, in Yanklish both the verb and noun are spelled the same: "Curb". Don't expect us to do otherwise at this late juncture.

You could throw a curbside barbecue if you wanted to make a little money; all they have to do is drive up.

Does that help? :)

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:22 am 
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benhall.1 wrote:
.... It took me ages to realise that there actually is a word - not in English, mind - that's spelt "curbside". I'd never come across that before. It doesn't make sense. What's it curbing? Sides?
[EDIT] Nearly forgot to mention: this is supposed to be the UK version of this game/app. There are quite a lot of other words that I don't recognise as well.

To me, to curb something means to put a stop to it - whilst the edging to pavement is a kerb, you could be kerbside, as in when you park a car, etc.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:35 am 
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerbside_collection

In UK-wide usage with the English spelling, for example: https://www.fdean.gov.uk/residents/bins ... d-rubbish/


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:23 am 
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Or https://grammarist.com/spelling/curb-kerb/


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:10 am 
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Tor wrote:

That one's very good, in fact. Most explanatory.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:29 pm 
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david_h wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerbside_collection

In UK-wide usage with the English spelling, for example: https://www.fdean.gov.uk/residents/bins ... d-rubbish/

Ah, so I see that "kerbside" is in fact in use in the UK. I was under the impression from Ben that regardless of spelling, the word was unknown across the Pond.

benhall.1 wrote:
Tor wrote:

That one's very good, in fact. Most explanatory.

What, my explanation didn't suffice? To recap:

Nanohedron wrote:
...at the curb (kerb, in your tongue :wink: )

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:46 pm 
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No, no. Of course I know and use the word "kerbside". But that's totally different from "curbside" which makes no sense at all. :)

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:49 pm 
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benhall.1 wrote:
No, no. Of course I know and use the word "kerbside". But that's totally different from "curbside" which makes no sense at all. :)

It would make sense if you heard it! Or do you pronounce them differently?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:09 pm 
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Nanohedron wrote:
benhall.1 wrote:
No, no. Of course I know and use the word "kerbside". But that's totally different from "curbside" which makes no sense at all. :)

It would make sense if you heard it! Or do you pronounce them differently?

Well, the 'k' obviously sounds completely different from what the 'c' would sound like ... if there were such a word as "curbside" that is ...

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:24 pm 
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benhall.1 wrote:
Nanohedron wrote:
benhall.1 wrote:
No, no. Of course I know and use the word "kerbside". But that's totally different from "curbside" which makes no sense at all. :)

It would make sense if you heard it! Or do you pronounce them differently?

Well, the 'k' obviously sounds completely different from what the 'c' would sound like ... if there were such a word as "curbside" that is ...

No such word as "curbside"... If you weren't Welsh, Ben, I'd call you a Little Englander. :twisted:

Perhaps we Yanks rely more on our ears, and thereby on context. I know that "gaol" is meant to be pronounced "jail", and I will because I ought to, but when I see it what I hear is "gowl". Every time. When it comes to roadside embankments, to me "curb" and "kerb" are identical; their spellings aren't, but to a Yank that is only a trifle of regionalism and nothing more. To me, "kerb" looks like the Orcs got to you. :wink:

How can I tell the difference between curb-as-noun and curb-as-verb, then, you ask? Once again, context. Even when I say we'll have to put a curb on spammers, despite the fact that the verb is now nounified, no Yank would ever take it to mean "kerb" despite the fact the we spell "kerb" as "curb". Besides, you'd have to get the spammers to keep still long enough for the concrete to set. Ridiculous idea, with their legs sticking out into the street.

So as you can see, it's not difficult to tell the difference even though we use the same spelling for all.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:16 pm 
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https://grammarist.com/spelling/curb-kerb/ wrote:
But everyone uses curb for the verb meaning to check or restrain and for the verb’s corresponding noun (e.g., curbs on spending).
Is that relevant here? The SOED has kerb as a verb meaning "to furnish with a kerb" and, furthermore, has kerbing meaning "the stones forming a kerb".

Nanohedron wrote:
How can I tell the difference between curb-as-noun and curb-as-verb, then, you ask?
Did someone? I missed it. I don't recall any problem telling, say, the difference between 'a fence' and 'to fence one's land'.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:06 pm 
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david_h wrote:
The SOED has kerb as a verb meaning "to furnish with a kerb" and, furthermore, has kerbing meaning "the stones forming a kerb".

Aha.

david_h wrote:
Nanohedron wrote:
How can I tell the difference between curb-as-noun and curb-as-verb, then, you ask?
Did someone? I missed it.

Come, now; don't tell me you've never heard a rhetorical question before. And you know people would wonder, so there's no need to be like that.

Anyway:

david_h wrote:
I don't recall any problem telling, say, the difference between 'a fence' and 'to fence one's land'.

While I admit that I could have been more clear in intending "curb-as-noun" to mean "kerb-as-the-Yanks-would-spell-it", and "curb-as-verb" to mean the only thing it could possibly mean in British orthography (as it does in the US too, as well the other), I went on the assumption that this was already the general drift, given the course of the conversation so far. My comparison was "kerb" to "curb", to borrow strictly British usage. My altering the spelling of "kerb" to "curb" doesn't change this, because I am trying to introduce ramifications of North American orthography, even touching on double duty, to show how we rely on context - and I can find no better way to be more clear. But I will try: No matter how it is spelled, and no matter how I sidetrack, I am in the end comparing apples to oranges here, not covering the nouning of a verb, or vice versa. Double duty is an element of the whole and may even get mention, but it's not what I was pointing at. I hope I've done better this time.

As to the verb "kerb", I think I've only heard "to lay curb/curbing". "Curb" only means the abutment itself with no double duty in the US so far as I am aware. Borrowing British usage again, we don't kerb anything; we lay kerb.

As to the noun "kerbing", its US equivalent "curbing" is more likely to mean a curb in the general sense, often with its makeup more or less in mind, or in reference to its aspect. My example above can't convey that fine point, I'm afraid. We're more likely to say "curbing material" when referring to the makeup itself. I don't know why, but there's something I've always liked about the word "curbing".

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:08 am 
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Nanohedron wrote:
We're more likely to say "curbing material" when referring to the makeup itself.

Now that really jars. :o

Given that kerbs, here in the UK at least, are almost always made out of blocks, it is perhaps no surprise that our term would always be "kerbstones". Do you have "curbstones"? (It's making me feel slightly nauseous just seeing that. :boggle: )

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:33 am 
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benhall.1 wrote:
... are almost always made out of blocks, it is perhaps no surprise that our term would always be "kerbstones".
I wonder if terming these - https://www.buildbase.co.uk/pavement-kerbs-10484-0000 -kerbstones would be "misdescription of goods" under the Trade Descriptions Act 1968


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:57 pm 
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benhall.1 wrote:
Do you have "curbstones"?

We do indeed, but the term has become somewhat relict and quaint, almost more literary than day-to-day functional. One may find old, private, or specialty installations made of stone, but these are exceptions, and I suspect this is especially so in the Midwest. When asking questions about the US, always remember that just as in the UK, what I say may not apply elsewhere; it only reflects my experience, which includes only a little bit outside my own region. But in general, it's safe to say that in public works (which is by far the majority case), modern curbing (kerbing) in the US is commonly made of concrete, and has been since at least the 1960s, and probably much earlier. There are many variations, but rather than being laid from modular sectional pieces anymore (being made of concrete, we wouldn't call them stones, but sections; if the industry calls them "stones" I am unaware of it), curbing is nowadays usually an integral curb-and-gutter system extruded out of fresh concrete by machine, on-site, in one continuous go for the length of it, and any sectioning is introduced during the process for the sake of weather expansion and contraction. Here is an example typical of my locale:

Image

Here's a pic illustrating how continuous US curbing can be:

Image

This was definitely laid from fresh concrete, extruded by machine on-site. You can see an expansion gap in the foreground. It is highly unlikely to be from my locale; curbing in my neck of the woods usually has the rounded profile you see in the first pic.

Here's an example of the process:

Image

As you can see, its profile is somewhere between the first two.

I don't know about British usage, but in the States "curbstone" would have no logical application in this instance. The method shown is so much the norm in public works that the word has lost most of its currency, except where it applies to actual stone as such. If it is used in the States to describe the above in any way, it would be a regionalism that I'm unfamiliar with.

While this type of curbing is by no means universal in the US, calling it highly pervasive would not be off the mark. The general design and method are very widespread and fairly standardized, and have been for quite some time. First comes the curbing extrusion; when it sets, then the road itself is laid so that it will be flush with upper edge of the curb's apron, the slight incline of which functions as a gutter for channeling water to drains positioned along the way (such as you see in the 1st pic). To shed water toward the gutters, up-to-date roads in good repair will be imperceptibly convex in cross section (an idea first implemented by the Romans, BTW; I expect British engineers would design roads this way, too). In my locale we've occasionally preserved brick or stone paving on public streets for historical reasons, but if the curbing is out of date, that is going to be replaced every time with the modern integral curb-and-gutter form you see above, because rains here can be long and heavy, so good drainage outweighs charm alone. But fortunately, the design lends a note of well-dressed formality to the finished look. Both the city and state are very keen to regulate these things where they can. Other communities may be more relaxed about it.

benhall.1 wrote:
Nanohedron wrote:
We're more likely to say "curbing material" when referring to the makeup itself.
Now that really jars. :o

That's a pretty strong reaction to the innocuous. Yes, it's non-specific, but it's supposed to be. If the material is known, then I'm sure people would say "concrete" or "stone", but even so, "material" still wouldn't be unlikely, depending on what was being said.

benhall.1 wrote:
(It's making me feel slightly nauseous just seeing that. :boggle: )

But why? Whether you spell it "curb" or "kerb", it - guess what? - curbs. I think that makes a very good case in favor of the North American spelling. :D

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