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 Post subject: Re: Jealous?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:53 pm 
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Thank you for your analysis, david_h. It is difficult, isn't it - the factors surrounding decisions provide their own and often undeniable logic after all, especially when considering the quantitative, yet the qualitative has an I think equally undeniable logic as well. Obviously that has been my angle all along. I must say I find it interesting how - if I'm not mistaken - you and I seem to differ on the ethical weight of pricing sunglasses as opposed to medicines; and at this point I don't have any satisfying resolution to that difference which, to me, presents itself as very stark indeed.

Much to think about and chew on. Will have to chew some more.

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 Post subject: Re: Jealous?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:04 pm 
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These conversations always go to interesting places. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Jealous?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:02 pm 
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A decent three-sentence summation of my own feelings on ethics and morals. YMMV.

"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do."
-Robert Heinlein

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 Post subject: Re: Jealous?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:27 pm 
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An Draighean wrote:
A decent three-sentence summation of my own feelings on ethics and morals. YMMV.

"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do."
-Robert Heinlein

Interestingly enough, right about the very time you posted this I came across a previously unknown-to-me statement by Martin Luther King, Jr.:

"There are certain things in our nation and in the world [to] which I am proud to be maladjusted."

I'll remember that one. Fits me to a T. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Jealous?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:23 pm 
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Nanohedron wrote:
... you and I seem to differ on the ethical weight of pricing sunglasses as opposed to medicines...
Maybe. I think that if as you say ...
Nanohedron wrote:
... at its source medicine tends to be in the realm of private enterprise...
then market forces (influenced by regulators and the law) have free play and ethics don't have much practical relevance. I think ethics are relevant when it comes to the regulators and law makers and the way the drug companies interact with them They could, for example, do something about this: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-sho ... 0417032082


Last edited by david_h on Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Jealous?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:24 pm 
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Nanohedron wrote:
PB+J wrote:
You can pay people to click to your video and to share it.

Call me naive, but would people actually do that?

Yea, its like you can buy followers on twitter and Instagram. When I see em I report em.

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 Post subject: Re: Jealous?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:05 pm 
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david_h wrote:
I think ethics are relevant when it comes to the regulators and law makers and the way the drug companies interact with them They could, for example, do something about this: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-sho ... 0417032082

No disagreement there.

From both ends the economic implications are compelling, of course. And of course I keep returning to two things: the cycle of needless waste created by expiration dates that are proving to be far shorter than the reality, and the pollution that waste causes, made even greater by the cycle. Hmm. Maybe that's three things. Anyway, I don't see how anyone could call that sustainable, if you'll forgive the trendyspeak. And then one must ask: Already knowing this, and having known it for a good while, what do the Powers have to say for themselves?

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 Post subject: Re: Jealous?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:10 pm 
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AuLoS303 wrote:
When I see em I report em.

Well, I'm confused. Earlier - if I got this right - it seemed to me that buying views and followers was, unethical or no, just something you could do and no one much cared aside from at a personal level. Is it actually against the rules, then? If so, I missed that.

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 Post subject: Re: Jealous?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:14 pm 
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Nanohedron wrote:
AuLoS303 wrote:
When I see em I report em.

Well, I'm confused. Earlier - if I got this right - it seemed to me that buying views and followers was, unethical or no, just something you could do and no one much cared aside from at a personal level. Is it actually against the rules, then? If so, I missed that.

It violates Instagram's guidelines so I guess that makes it a legal issue, but also I think its wrong. No-one wants to be spammed

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 Post subject: Re: Jealous?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:36 am 
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AuLoS303 wrote:
Nanohedron wrote:
AuLoS303 wrote:
When I see em I report em.

Well, I'm confused. Earlier - if I got this right - it seemed to me that buying views and followers was, unethical or no, just something you could do and no one much cared aside from at a personal level. Is it actually against the rules, then? If so, I missed that.

It violates Instagram's guidelines so I guess that makes it a legal issue, but also I think its wrong. No-one wants to be spammed

That's the thing though. Is it spamming? I mean, it may well be entirely appropriate content for the people who eventually end up watching it, and getting it to them is surely marketing, isn't it?

But even so, I won't pay for views. It just doesn't feel right. I don't go as far as to call it spamming though. And Instagram ... hmmm ... I am positively aware of at least one company which has gone from nothing to $130m turnover in the space of seven years precisely by paying for views on Instagram, so they obviously don't police it very well, if it's against their rules ...

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 Post subject: Re: Jealous?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 3:49 am 
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Something else I think I've noticed ... but could be in my imagination ...

If I post on here, especially if it's slightly unusual post, the number of hits on both the YouTube video and BandCamp goes up very soon after. I think I might have to start getting more outrageous ...

:)

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 Post subject: Re: Jealous?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:34 am 
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benhall.1 wrote:
... but could be in my imagination ...
You are not checking the hits hourly and plotting graphs, or doing fancy statistics, to look for correlations? :D


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 Post subject: Re: Jealous?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:53 pm 
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david_h wrote:
benhall.1 wrote:
... but could be in my imagination ...
You are not checking the hits hourly and plotting graphs, or doing fancy statistics, to look for correlations? :D

Er ... no ...

Dammit!

:oops:

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 Post subject: Re: Jealous?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 3:54 pm 
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I've thought about sharing this video for a little while. A data scientist talks briefly (5min) about the phenomenon of buying followers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPCpYO18ds4

(If you are into podcasts, I originally learned about buying followers from this episode of Benjamen Walker's Theory of Everything. The Podcast is much longer and talks about various other aspects about it such as the risks of not buying followers.)


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 Post subject: Re: Jealous?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:06 pm 
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AaronFW wrote:
I've thought about sharing this video for a little while. A data scientist talks briefly (5min) about the phenomenon of buying followers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPCpYO18ds4

(If you are into podcasts, I originally learned about buying followers from this episode of Benjamen Walker's Theory of Everything. The Podcast is much longer and talks about various other aspects about it such as the risks of not buying followers.)

This presents something I've suspected all along: that manipulating follower numbers has less to do with simple vanity and more to do with what you can get out of appearing to be popular.

What strikes me is that if everyone knows about it, they go along with it anyway. A most curious social phenomenon, don't you think?

benhall.1 wrote:
I think I might have to start getting more outrageous ...

It would make an interesting experiment to see how that works in comparison to buying followers.

Perhaps a change of wardrobe?

Image

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