The Short F: Is it worth it?

The Chiff & Fipple Irish Flute on-line community. Sideblown for your protection.
Post Reply
MKE_Chris
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 11:12 am
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8

The Short F: Is it worth it?

Post by MKE_Chris »

Hello All.

A number of years ago I finally purchased my primary instrument: A 5-keyed Sam Murray with all the usual suspects except the short F. There are times when I wish there was a short F for one reason or another, as in certain passages requiring F naturals it would seem to make sense, but I've so far gotten by engaging the left hand pinky.

I've often wondered if it would be worth it to have a maker do a pin-mount job to add the key, as there's no block for it. But then of course I run the risk of mutilating an otherwise lovely flute, I suppose. Any thoughts on this?
User avatar
kkrell
Posts: 4831
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 6:00 pm
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: Mostly producer of the Wooden Flute Obsession 3-volume 6-CD 7-hour set of mostly player's choice of Irish tunes, played mostly solo, on mostly wooden flutes by approximately 120 different mostly highly-rated traditional flute players & are mostly...
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: The Short F: Is it worth it?

Post by kkrell »

My thought would be not to mutilate the flute. I'd rather have a short F than a long F, but you haven't the choice.

Now, in the guitar world, if a guitar is a "player" and resale, etc. is not an issue that would come up, many players would perhaps customize to their liking.

For a Murray, which aren't made anymore, you'd have to either hack away with puncturing the tube for a pin mount, tonehole & seat, or have wood grafted in to turn for a block (plus tonehole & seat anyway). Jon C. would be a choice for a block mount, assuming possible to get a good, invisible wood match (probably not if it's boxwood).
kmag
Posts: 399
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 5:55 pm
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: I try my best to play the flute and pipes. I have been coming here for years and now are required to fill this out for an address change.
Location: Coos Bay Oregon

Re: The Short F: Is it worth it?

Post by kmag »

I would not put a pin mounted key on a block mounted flute. Aesthetically it would look off to me.
For myself I have no idea why a person would elect not to have a short F unless there was a physical limitation to warrant it and there was a cost savings. I personally use the short F more than the long F.
User avatar
benhall.1
Moderator
Posts: 14797
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:21 pm
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: I'm a fiddler and, latterly, a fluter. I love the flute. I wish I'd always played it. I love the whistle as well. I'm blessed in having really lovely instruments for all of my musical interests.
Location: Unimportant island off the great mainland of Europe

Re: The Short F: Is it worth it?

Post by benhall.1 »

Gosh, if I had a lovely Murray flute, I wouldn't risk it. :o I'd rather learn how to live with the flute as it is. Every flute has its limitations, but, if it's anything like some of the keyed Murrays I've met out there, playing Irish music wouldn't be one of them.

But you've obviously lived with the flute for some time. It must be like an old friend. What if having something done to it made you like it less? For those rare times when you might really need a short F, I'd be more inclined to buy another flute than to risk damaging the instrument you've got.
User avatar
kkrell
Posts: 4831
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 6:00 pm
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: Mostly producer of the Wooden Flute Obsession 3-volume 6-CD 7-hour set of mostly player's choice of Irish tunes, played mostly solo, on mostly wooden flutes by approximately 120 different mostly highly-rated traditional flute players & are mostly...
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: The Short F: Is it worth it?

Post by kkrell »

benhall.1 wrote:What if having something done to it made you like it less? For those rare times when you might really need a short F, I'd be more inclined to buy another flute than to risk damaging the instrument you've got.
I agree, another flute sounds appropriate. Although...I'd think a new key would have minimal if any effect on sound, as at least it's a hole that is normally in the closed position. One could always plug it. Also, I've seen some key configurations where an additional key merely lifts the current key pad (for the long F), with no additional/alternate tonehole required.
User avatar
sligofluter
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:01 pm
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Location: Granada (Spain)

Re: The Short F: Is it worth it?

Post by sligofluter »

Short F key makes my life easier, I use to alternate with the long F depending of the tune. Generally I play long F when going up on the scale, from D or E to F, and the short one when descending on the scale, from G to F.

But I don´t like the idea of adding a new key to a Sam Murray flute, take note you have a very valuable instrument, Sam Murray almost does not make any flute and you will have a museum instrument in a few years.

The easy way will be to buy a new flute, and the hard one will convince your wife that you need a new flute.

D
Our irish music blog in Spanish: https://theirishflow.com/
User avatar
benhall.1
Moderator
Posts: 14797
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:21 pm
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: I'm a fiddler and, latterly, a fluter. I love the flute. I wish I'd always played it. I love the whistle as well. I'm blessed in having really lovely instruments for all of my musical interests.
Location: Unimportant island off the great mainland of Europe

Re: The Short F: Is it worth it?

Post by benhall.1 »

kkrell wrote:
benhall.1 wrote:What if having something done to it made you like it less? For those rare times when you might really need a short F, I'd be more inclined to buy another flute than to risk damaging the instrument you've got.
I agree, another flute sounds appropriate. Although...I'd think a new key would have minimal if any effect on sound, as at least it's a hole that is normally in the closed position. One could always plug it. Also, I've seen some key configurations where an additional key merely lifts the current key pad (for the long F), with no additional/alternate tonehole required.
I understand from talking to flutemakers that any new hole, closed or not, alters the properties of the flute. That has always made sense to me, because there is a hole on the inside, i.e. a disruption in the bore. My understanding is that a flutemaker might make other holes differently if there was going to be this hole in the first place. I was thinking of your second option all along - personally, I wouldn't dream of having someone make a new hole; but even a new post and key would be too much of a risk to me. It's bound to change the playability and aesthetics at the very least, and who knows whether that would be for the better? Also, however good the person making the new key, there's bound to be some element of risk to the flute itself, just as there is in even the most minor operation on a human. But at least humans can heal themselves, our bodies repairing damaged tissue - flutes can't do that.
psychodonald
Posts: 355
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:37 pm
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: Very much enjoy all flutes, bagpipes and whistles. I'm an older player; however, an active learner. I take current lessons from an Irish Flute tutor, a Boehm Flute tutor and a Highland Bagpipe tutor. I'm a great believer in lessons and without the assistance of a tutor, I find that I would be repeating the same mistakes over and over again, making me proficient in poor music.
Location: U.S.A.

Re: The Short F: Is it worth it?

Post by psychodonald »

I agree with all of the above posts, I wouldn't do it.
User avatar
jemtheflute
Posts: 6969
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 6:47 am
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Location: N.E. Wales, G.B.
Contact:

Re: The Short F: Is it worth it?

Post by jemtheflute »

Well, I'm gonna go against the grain here. If I felt I needed it on my preferred main flute, I'd get it done. (Personally I use both F keys, though probably the long one more than the short, at least in flat keys). Provided the craftsman chosen is top-notch, I don't think there's any major risk either structurally or to the playing qualities. Although on boxwood it can't be done near-invisibly, I'd prefer and advise getting a block grafted on, if feasible (space might be a problem and if so a second hole might be inevitable), rather than more noticeably inconsistent and greater crack-risk-entailing pillars. I don't think an extra hole would be a huge issue, but it isn't necessary and having the new short F as a Tromlitz lever lifting the existing long F would be the best bet. Done really well I think it would be unlikely to affect current or future value and more likely to enhance than reduce it.
I respect people's privilege to hold their beliefs, whatever those may be (within reason), but respect the beliefs themselves? You gotta be kidding!

My YouTube channel
My FB photo albums
Low Bb flute: 2 reels (audio)
Flute & Music Resources - helpsheet downloads
busterbill
Posts: 731
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2003 8:06 pm
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8

Re: The Short F: Is it worth it?

Post by busterbill »

That's going to be up to you. I use both since I have both. But if you are at home with your flute you may or may or not notice much. If you can wrangle the loan of a flute with both long and short f keys give it a week of using both and see if it makes much difference to you. I would get a block mounted key on a block mounted flute. The problem with this fix is you will be without your flute for sometime. In the states Jon Cornia might be your contact. I'm not sure where you are. The Cities II shipping regulations may make it hard to send out of your home country.
User avatar
radcliff
Posts: 852
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2003 4:56 pm
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: in two words, Rudall & Rose. but since a minimum of 100 characters is required, I should list a number of makers I found extremely interesting… I don't even know how much are 100 characters...
Location: Somewhere over the Rainbow (Rome)

Re: The Short F: Is it worth it?

Post by radcliff »

I'm sure a good flute maker could add a block for the F short key. They can create a socket and then add the block on the flute. I've seen this made by Hamilton and it works great.
Francesco - Rome, Italy
TransverseWoodenFlutes.com
jim stone
Posts: 17185
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2001 6:00 pm

Re: The Short F: Is it worth it?

Post by jim stone »

I just wish to report that I've had a C nat thumb hole put in on a number of
flutes, it cost between 20 or 30 dollars, it takes the maker about an hour,
and the results have always been entirely fine--at least to his ear and mine.
Post Reply