A Copeland? Another mystery low d whistle please?

[DrPhill]

Plenty of fine abrasives to choose from. Toothpaste works well, as does sudocrem (zinc oxide in castor oil). I leave mine to get a patina, which wears off around the finger holes.

[Loren]

Doesn't look like any early Copeland I've ever seen and my first thought was also that it was probably a Bishop whistle, but I've never seen one, only read Dale's post back in the day. The more I look at it though, the more I have doubts it would have been made by Bishop - I see things that I don't think someone who apprenticed with Copeland would have done. My guess at this point would be that it is a Copeland "copy" by someone else.

I bet the tape is keeping the block in place: Either keeping the block pins (if there are any) from falling out/moving, or the tape is securing the entire block from moving. Also possible the block was made from some material that has cracked, I've seen that a few times.

[Mikethebook]

That's a possibility that has crossed my mind too, Loren. I might decide not to touch the tape but hopefully I will get some kind of reply from Michael or Jim regarding the whistle's origins.

Thanks for the abrasive suggestions, Dr Phill:)

[Loren]

Also, fwiw, I prefer and recommend using a brass polishing cloth on brass wind instruments whenever possible - less messy and less chance abrasives will go places you don't want. Keep in mind that any abrasive will act as a lapping compound, in your tuning slide components for example, potentially causing a looser fit over time. Abrasives getting between the block and headjoint can also cause problems. In the wind way as well.

Don't get me wrong, abrasive creams/pastes/liquids can be perfectly safe if you have the ability to completely disassemble the instrument and then thouroughly remove all abrasive after use. Still, it's quicker, easier and at least as safe to simply use a brass polishing cloth most of the time, unless something is REALLY tarnished.

[DrPhill]

Also, fwiw, I prefer and recommend using a brass polishing cloth on brass wind instruments whenever possible - less messy and less chance abrasives will go places you don't want.........

All good points, and maybe explains why I rarely clean my whistles (obviously its not my laziness .

[Mikethebook]

What about internally? A one-piece tapered instrument will be much harder to clean than my Goldie? Any thoughts or suggestions?

[whistle1000]

I have a friend here who is friends with Jim Bishop. I'll ask if he has him on facebook or any kind of contact for him. I've been thinking hard and trying to remember if that logo was there. I'm kinda thinking it was but it has been so long ago. It would be pretty cool if it was one of Jim's. It may be very free blowong as a Copeland has zero breath resistance. Good luck!!

[Mikethebook]

Thanks. It would be great to ask Jim Bishop, somehow.

[Mikethebook]

Disappointment! The whistle arrived today but I doubt it has any links with Copeland. The main photo is misleading. It looked like a tapered body but the measuring tape hides the fact it is a normal parallel tube, the brass very thin (I don't know what's it's like on a Copeland but I'm comparing it with my Goldie ) and the holes large. I will take some photos when I have time maybe today. I haven't tried to play it yet, not until I give it a decent clean but it is supposed to be a Low D though from the blade tip to the end of the tube it is about an inch shorter than either my Goldie or Dixon tapered bore. Aside from playing it, is that the only measurement I need to determine the key? My question now is whether there are any other makers it could be or if it is homemade. BTW under the tape, which I'll leave for now, the plug would appear to be something like delrin with a shape a little like the MK but with the narrow curved windway at the top directly under the brass.

P.S. I've removed the tape and the fipple is intact. Must have been to protect mouth from the brass. The length from blade to the end of the tube is 517mm with tuning slide closed. According to Guido Gonzato's whistle plans a Low D would be 544mm meaning the slide would have to be precariously almost fully open to play as a Low D.

[DrPhill]

From blade edge to end of body on mine in its playing position was 535mm, with tuning slide fully in 530mm, out a long way 550mm.

HTH

[DrPhill]

And a relevant thread about cleaning brass in another forum: http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/bras ... 06845.html

[Mikethebook]

Thanks for the threads. I reckon this whistle must have been made as a C#. Low D is right at the limit of the slide extension. If it's homemade then it's a strange key to choose. It still could be a commercial whistle I guess but then who's? I can't imagine any Copeland apprentice would produce a whistle that wasn't tapered. Or would they?

Here are some photos but I'm not a good photographer and my camera is cheap. Right now I'm wondering whether to clean it up and fit the body back to head, then try it out, or send it back to the seller as not being a Low D and get my money back. Unless anyone who likes tinkering with such things wants to make me a very modest offer for it . . .





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[Peter Duggan]

I reckon this whistle must have been made as a C#. Low D is right at the limit of the slide extension.

So it'll be Eb if it's not D. But what size is the bore? Remember the wider the bore, the shorter the whistle for the same pitch...

Right now I'm wondering whether to clean it up and fit the body back to head, then try it out, or send it back to the seller as not being a Low D and get my money back.

Hadn't you better try it before returning it as not what you bought? And don't you want to anyway just in case it's miraculously good at whatever pitch it plays?

[Mikethebook]

Hi Peter,

So it'll be Eb if it's not D. But what size is the bore? Remember the wider the bore, the shorter the whistle for the same pitch

Is there a reason you say Eb rather than D#? And I didn't know about the bore. I love C&F! There's so much to learn from those more experienced. Well my Goldie is about 22mm and this monster (the holes are huge) is 25mm so it could be D then. Is there some clever formula for bore and length for a given key?

Hadn't you better try it before returning it as not what you bought? And don't you want to anyway just in case it's miraculously good at whatever pitch it plays?

If it is a D then okay. I have a very limited whistle budget with a list of whistles I want to get but this was only £25 so it might be fun trying and if I don't like it maybe someone would buy it from me for that.

P.S. First I have a problem. As you can see from the photos, the head came apart from the tuning slide maybe in transit. I'm not sure it was meant to be disconnected and I'm struggling to put it back even with a little grease.

[DrPhill]

Is there some clever formula for bore and length for a given key?

Sort of.... Search for TWCalc, TWJCalc, Flutomat....... (I wrote TWJCalc and so obviously I think it is the best, but they all use the same underlying math)

Edit: Hans Bracker has a calculator on his website too IIRC