MK owners question

[AngelicBeaver]

Does your MK whistle break into a half-tone kinda thing if you tongue the mid D and Upper E (maybe the F# as well)? It happens when I if I try to do an unvented cran on mid D as well, although pulling back on the breath helps. The sound breaks and sticks in a higher note, but not an octave up but somewhere in between. This isn't the first whistle I've noticed this on, so I'm wondering if it's a "feature" of the MK.

[Feadoggie]

Is it an "A", similar to the high A note?

[kokopelli]

That sounds like a very common effect in all whistles. I don't know what it's called but it's what makes the tabor pipe work. I think Feadoggie is hinting at the same thing without actually saying it. Basically you can play G with the same fingering as D, A with the fingering of E, B with the fingering of F# and C# with the fingering of G. This lets you play the whole octave while only fingering half of it. I'm sure other people can give more information about it. It doesn't work in the bottom octave though, only the second and third (and possibly higher).

[MTGuru]

Basically you can play G with the same fingering as D, A with the fingering of E, B with the fingering of F# and C# with the fingering of G.

Almost, but not quite. When you overblow the 2nd octave notes: D -> A, E -> B, F# -> C#, G -> D

It's just the natural harmonic series. Fundamental, octave, 12th (a 5th above the octave) ...

[AngelicBeaver]

Yes, D plays A. E plays B. F# doesn't really seem to want to get in on the action. Very interesting. Thanks.

[kokopelli]

Basically you can play G with the same fingering as D, A with the fingering of E, B with the fingering of F# and C# with the fingering of G.

Almost, but not quite. When you overblow the 2nd octave notes: D -> A, E -> B, F# -> C#, G -> D

It's just the natural harmonic series. Fundamental, octave, 12th (a 5th above the octave) ...

Oops
If I had stopped to think about that before I posted it I would have seen my mistake. Thanks for the correction.

[fearfaoin]

It's just the natural harmonic series. Fundamental, octave, 12th (a 5th above the octave) ...

And what makes the tabor pipe possible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-hole_pipe
http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Pipe_and ... g_the_pipe

[pancelticpiper]

Yes it's overtones, or harmonics.

The harmonic series for D begins D D A D F# A. It's the notes bugles play. So you can finger Bottom D and play all the bugle tunes!

Note that they decrease, going octave, fifth, fourth, major 3rd, minor 3rd.

Anyhow it gives you two different possible fingerings for A in the 2nd octave xxo ooo and xxx xxx.

I've not heard this exploited in Irish traditional music, but it is in Bulgarian music, on the Kaval: to rapidly repeat notes in a fast dance tune the Kaval player will often alternate between the two fingerings (open and closed/harmonic) for the same note.

I actually experimented with this on the Low D whistle, coming up with what would be the second part of a jig in A minor, replacing what would be a series of rolls on high A with this alternation:

| aaa aaa | aaa (cut) age | with the a's in boldface being done by fingering Bottom D.

Here it is, fleetingly, at 0:46 (right before 0:47), alternating fingerings of the same note to create a subtle separation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uC2nsk-9kec

[Feadoggie]

I've not heard this exploited in Irish traditional music

It's not exactly "traditional" Irish music but James McNally uses harmonics in some of his whistle playing both in his more atmospheric solo work and with AfroCelts. I am sure other players are doing the same, maybe Spillane (though I can't remember an example at the moment).

We know the harmonic notes are there. Why not use them in suitable situations? I've thought that being able to play those notes was a good skill to have. But I've never seen a place to use them short of writing a piece just for that purpose.

Does anyone here check their tuning using the harmonics?

Feadoggie

[Steve Bliven]

Does anyone here check their tuning using the harmonics?

Only on a guitar...

Best wishes.

Steve

[Feadoggie]

Only on a guitar...

Ok. That may be how I got started doing this. I've always tuned my stringed instruments by harmonics. So when I started making flutes and whistles I began checking to see if the tuning matched up with the harmonics.

Does anyone have examples of recordings or performance videos where whistle players use the harmonic series (other than tabor pipes of course)?

Feadoggie

[AngelicBeaver]

Only on a guitar...

Ok. That may be how I got started doing this. I've always tuned my stringed instruments by harmonics. So when I started making flutes and whistles I began checking to see if the tuning matched up with the harmonics.

Ha. I initially misread this as tuning your stringed instruments with harmonicas. I thought, that's a really interesting way to do it...

[Tunborough]

Only on a guitar...

Ok. That may be how I got started doing this. I've always tuned my stringed instruments by harmonics. So when I started making flutes and whistles I began checking to see if the tuning matched up with the harmonics.

Because the pitch of a whistle varies depending on how hard you blow, harmonics aren't as dependable as they are with guitar strings. The second and third may be ok, but beyond that it's likely to get inconsistent, and sharp.

I think you'd be better off with the harmonica.

[bogman]

I find the whole thing of tuning a whistle with anything other than your ears a bit weird.

[DrPhill]

Does anyone here check their tuning using the harmonics? Feadoggie

I do, (using xooooo and xxxxxo) but I never dared admit it in case it marked me out as (even more) wierd. Thanks for 'fessing up. It seems to me a cheap and easy way to do the job without extra equipment. I do not know how this tuning compares with the standard a440. (Nor do I care overmuch).

I also occaisionally use harmonics in tunes, overblowing e,f#,g to get a smooth transition for b.c#,d for example in my rendering of the solo in Allein Duinn. Also I use overblowing for a softer transition to (an admittedly muddier) to 'b' from near 'e' or 'd'. (all notes in terms of a D whistle).

Just another technique...........