Don't know about O & O, but yeah, I nuked more boxwood than you could shake a stick at , during my time in recorder making land, it was just one of many steps in our seasoning/stabilizing process.

Geeze Cat, you're reminding me just how much work I used to have to do!!

Loren

I microwave Boxwood all the time. I did a big batch today. Usually I'll put 5 or 6 pilot bored pieces in for 5 minutes at defrost. I then leave them for a week, preferably in the warmest part of my workshop, or until no more movement is detected.

It was Rod Cameron who first came up with this technique. His method involves a longer cycle in the microwave, followed by a soaking in water, then letting sit for at least a month until the weight stabilizes.

For those who want to try this - its important to seal the end grain. I use a wipe-on polyurethane varnish.

As long as Boxwood is microwaved to "size" it (similar in concept to preshrinking fabric) and tenons are sealed, warping is no more an issue than with any other wood.

As for woods for a low flute, I've found that Boxwood is excellent, provided one can find long enough pieces of straight wood relatively free of defects. Getting harder to find, especially stuff that has been cured for a decade or more in half log form. A few pieces that I ordered as "Grade A" squares from Turkey recently warped horribly. They are cutting the logs there, and then milling them right away apparently. Because of this, I am recommending my clients get their low flutes in Blackwood or Mopane.

Blackwood and Mopane are also excellent. Anything less dense than Boxwood would result in the tone being compromised some. These are really narrow bored flutes (compared with a typical Rudall D flute). Thus trying to achieve the best tone quality and volume is one factor in terms of wood selection. Softer and lighter weight woods like Maple etc. just don't cut it for me.

Casey

Don't recall if I ever mentioned it. It smelled strongly to me of linseed oil though, which is something I dislike, so I expect I would have mentioned it in the spirit of disclosure in case it would have been an issue for you as well. After all, you know where I hang out.


My impression was that it was solely a pure linseed-oil treatment, but that's all it is: an impression.

BTW, that was the first dogwood stick Patrick ever made, and although he was game to try because he'd never done so before and that stack of untried lumber was always in the back of his mind, it being at my request the flute was considered a prototype and as such was of course devoid of any official warranty. All in all, as a player it turned out well, I think. I would have even kept it if I hadn't been so dadblanged set on getting keyed blackwood with a player-protective lip plate (allergy, you see; that, and a spirit of adventure, was my motivation for getting the dogwood in the first place).


I would agree: as with boxwood, so with dogwood, seems to me.


So how about my idea of a metal ferrule sheathing the whole of the tenon in hypothetical future instruments? It could possibly restrain swelling and ovalling. Stupid idea? Worth trying?

Hammy Hamilton puts metal ferrules -- or maybe even all-metal tenons? I can't remember (where's Rama? Look at that flute and let us know if there's wood under there, wouldja?) for sure -- on his flutes. But it seems if you could keep the moisture from getting underneath and swelling/cracking or thus rotting the wood, why not? I just wonder how much gets into the end grain. I've had good luck with Pat Olwell's tip to smear cork grease around the inside of each socket before you play as well as on the tenons, and also the reminder to oil the tenon edges so the end grain gets at least a little love ...

This is neat stuff, guys. My greatest woodworking achievement so far is shortening and smooth-sanding a cleaning rod to fit in my Northwind case, but hey, ya never know. Thanks!

Superglue seems to be a lousy sealer as far as moisture goes. Probably due to its early use and original purpose as an emergency field suture in the battlefield.

I would use a polyurethane sealer instead.

E indeed is a very difficult note on the Bb flute, even more so as on the D flute (on which it already can cause some headache) - having made a few prototypes myself I certainly know that. Either its sharp, or it's unstable, or both. On all the Bb flutes I tried, including all Aebis, my own Ormiston and the Grinter, E was a troublesome note - controllable, pitch-wise, but still weak and easy to break. I guess that's just how it is. One has to work with it. I'll probably go ahead and make a new headjoint for my Ormiston just to find out if the embouchure cut that made the E stable and strong on my own flutes (sort of) works for Ormiston's Bb as well.

C# however is something different. On the Ormiston its pretty much in tune as on the D flutes I have on hand at the moment. I guess that's because George pays special attention to a good C# on his flutes, I also found the same behavior on his D flutes. Drawback is that not all "common" (not: classical) C fingerings work. OXOXXX is sharp, OXXOOO is sharp, OXXXOO to a lesser extent, OXXXOX is best. OXXXXO sounds too muffled. The C key gives the best tuning of course (another reason to get keys). The Aebi flutes I tried were also very good on C#, and the C fingerings worked a lot better than on my Ormiston. I didn't pay much attention to C# on the Grinter...maybe the owner chimes in to say something about it? On the Leharts I tried, tuning is really good, but that's paid with a finger stretch that might be too much for some people. I couldn't cope with it for long.

Oh you mostly likely mentioned it but I wouldn't have remembered because at that time I had been pressure oiling 50 or more pieces of wood with linseed oil, per week. I wouldn't have blinked an eye at your mention of it in light of how much linseed oil I was around back then




Yes, I remember this well and I am glad you mention it. Patrick did, in my mind, handle this in the best possible way, and folks reading this thread should know this, so thanks for bringing it up. Folks should also know that you did indeed make this clear to me before the sale and I bought fully informed.



I agree, the flute is a great player and I have never regretted buying it. I got rid of all my other flutes and just played the Dogwood Olwell until my arm problems started and forced me to quit for so long. Sadly my new grip makes flutes with a one piece center rather uncomfortable to play now that I'm back at it, so the Dogwood is problematic in that sense for me. It has been a very good flute, but certainly requires more upkeep, and over the years the ovalling and swelling have become more of an issue, perhaps more so than most boxwood flutes I've owned.



When I first got the flute I agreed, now I feel that Dogwood maybe has more drawbacks than boxwood, however this is only based on my experience with one flute made from the wood, and I still haven't run across any Boxwood Olwell flutes of the same age to see how they compare, so....... Hey, if anyone has a boxwood Olwell with separate right and left hand sections, keyed or keyless, that they are looking to sell, please contact me - seriously.



In retrospect, banding the tenons might very well have kept the ovalling from getting out of hand at the socket and tenon connection. At this point banding may not be possible or practical. I could put the body on the lathe and turn the outside of the tenon concentric, which would be necessary for banding at this point, however that would leave the top tenon extremely thin on two sides so I am hesitant. If I could first get that top tenon more concentric, perhaps by changing the flute's moisture content, I think banding might be viable, but I have my doubts the flute will come back into round without drastic measures. Hmmm, something to think about though...........thanks for giving me some food for thought on the issue Jason.

Yeah, where is Rama these days?

And yes, hammy does or did do bands on the tenons. Not sure if he's still doing it on his new flutes but I recently had my hands on a 2003 Hammy that had brass bands on the top of the tenons.

I know I've also seen a bunch of photos of Wilkes flutes with banded tenons. Never hand my lips on one though, sigh..........



Excellent low tech suggestion for folks!



Careful! Most of us started small, next thing you know you'll be making U-Pipes!!

Loren

I had pretty much discarded the idea for your flute for the reasons you mention - too little too late - so that's why I asked about the idea's possibilities as a controlling measure for future instruments. Sounds like you're not averse to the idea, then?

Wouldn't a modern alternative like inset tenons in Delrin be a better bet? Done like replacements for snapped-off tenons..... Those could not oval (or swell and jam in the sockets - which could be counter-lined in either metal or Delrin anyway) and presumably the main parts of the joints where the wood is thicker are less prone to such distortion? If they were fastened in with a relatively thick layer of a flexible adhesive (and maybe retaining pins to ensure normal assembly/disassembly didn't make them rotate or pull out), they shouldn't pose too much risk of the joint cracking over them. Sure, you'd have two short sections of bore which were Delrin, not wood, but I doubt that would have any noticeable effect. Lots more work, though!

Makes an even better case for the metal ferrule, doesn't it.

No. Would work much better with less probable problems entailed. But much more time-consuming (=expensive) to do.

Too much work for me! From a repair perspective it's not worth it for an existing flute, and on new what's the point? If you're going that route then the design Healy uses would be better - relatively long banded sections and metal sockets and tenons.

I'm neither for or against banding as Jason suggests, I'm merely curious because I honestly don't know how well it would work. My suspicion is that wood that is a sensitive to moisture as Dogwood might not actually hold the bands well - I figure it might very well be difficult to keep them in place as the tenon starts expanding and contracting with moisture changes. But honestly, I just don't know. Hammy and Wilkes probably have some insight, perhaps other makers. I don't recall seeing any tenon bands in the 1000+ instruments that came through our shop for repair work while I was there so I got nothing. Zip. Zilch. Nada. Bupkis. Certainly worth a try though on newer instruments, if you're set on traditional rather than Healy/Abell style. Still, if it were me, I'd be most inclined to skip the bands and seal bore like we did at VH. It's a pain in the ass, but it works well and has been tested for well over 2 decades, probably 3, with good success. IMO it also improves the instrument's tone and response, plus it cuts down or eliminates the need for re-reaming and re-sanding the bore.

Would probably be better if we banded a Bb or something, just to get back on-topic

There's always that option.

My Hamilton has metal ferrules on its tenons, but then the flute is blackwood, which doesn't seem to swell significantly, and I always assumed they were there more to prevent accidental damage on the thin wood while disassembled than to prevent swelling issues. The same bands on boxwood might cause problems beneath them - preventing stuck joints, but splitting the (much thinner) tenon when it suddenly swelled... Skip Healy's method of tenon, metal on metal, seems more practical, regardless of wood material.