I reckon that's another Lloyd. Here's what I have so far on the Lloyd in London:

Lloyd, flute key maker, 2 Broadway, Westminster, (Insurance Policy, 1832)

JANE LLOYD: "I live at No. 9, Plumtree-court, my husband is a flute-key maker." (Old Bailey, 1819)

Conceivably the same family as above.

Terry

They are, as far as I know (memory isn't too crisp these days), the flute itself is unmarked but virtually identical to a R&R that it shares music with sometimes.

Terry, to support the maker thesis from key marks have a look at rerence to John Hale, footnote 23, end of this chapter

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=l1zt ... nt&f=false

...as an aside, did you remember that 19 Plumtree St was the Ingrams address around 1840, anywhere near the 9 Plumtree Court of your keymaker's wife Mrs Lloyd in 1819?

My 1857 Metzler has AL marked keys...

Thanks eskin, I'll add you to the growing list. How do you know it's 1857?

MarkP, I've also found a few references to John Hale, I.H under keys. Indeed, I added him to the keymarks page even though I haven't yet had one reported to me.

These references often have that slight tinge of doubt, eg "there is good evidence....". Somehow "good" sounds less than confident!

And on the Plumtree front, I can find these references ex NLI:

Thomas William Ingram. Listed as a flute and flageolet maker, but only a flageolet survives. (Wrong!) In partnership with Morland, succeeded Goodlad in 1838 at 25 Villiers Street. Moved here from Plumtree Street and later moved again to 16a Walcot Place, Lambeth.

Robert Scott apparently worked for William Card prior to 1840. Set up on his own in that year at Plumtree Street. A flute by Card survives which was stamped with Scott’s fecit.

One could be forgiven to paraphrase the old line about rats. When one is in London, one is never more than 20 feet from a flutemaker.

Terry

That address sure gets around, as it's on Wylde's mark, too, known to be associated with Ingram & Goodlad.

From this:

http://www.pbase.com/eskin/image/17068047

If they were all so easy...

Indeed! Thanks for that.

Can you let me know its C#-D# length (since we have a date). So far, you seem to have three choices....

Terry

Nice (Michael's date engraving...)! Strictly speaking that is a terminus ante quem: i.e. the flute must have been made before that engraving was made, but it is not possible to be sure that it was made shortly before - the flute could have been made years earlier but only engraved on later sale, or by the fourth or whatever owner.... or the lip-plate could have been a post-manufacture modification, whether engraved at time of installation or later..... The most likely scenario is indeed that the flute was made with lip plate and that engraving was done at or shortly after purchase for the first owner, but we cannot be certain. What we can tell with reasonable certainty (disallowing the pretty unlikely possibility of some strange, deliberate misinformation by the engraver/commissioner thereof) is that the flute was made no later than 1857.

I knew you were going to say that Jem

Edit: 1500 posts...

OK, newly upgraded version of the Liddle page. I must say, this story has really blossomed, thanks to all who have contributed in some way or another. We now can illustrate the direct link between a Liddle flute and A.L marked keys. Plus lots of other new stuff.

http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/Liddle.htm

There will be more to come, but I'd better get a bit of work done around here!

Terry

I can now report another Butler flute with "A.L" key stamps. It is stamped "Butler Haymarket London" on the upper body, is of cocus with GS fittings - ordinary rings and 4 keys (Bb, G#, short F and Eb), short D foot, probably with a non-original (and ill-matched) head. All bar the short F key have "A.L" clearly stamped on their undersides.
I'll try to do some photos when I get a chance.

I have also clarified and added to my Metzler info in the relevant current thread.

I also note, Terry, that you haven't quite transferred all the info from this old post of mine to your various relevant webpages. You haven't recorded my anonymous flute with "A.L" keys in your list of A.L stamped flutes on your stamps page, and you can also add my "Metzler London" (see Metzler thread) to that list, now I've got my info properly sorted out! (It's the one you list against my name as "Metzler & Co., but since I've now reported one which fits that info, you can leave that be..... )

BTW, you haven't included MarkP's anon one with both "A.L" and "F" stamps under either of those categories. Nor have you included the // slash mark on one of the "H&I" keys on my "Eastes" Fentum in the Numerical Marks entry, despite commenting on it by the photo......

Sheesh, no rest for the wicked around here! Well, I guess I have been particularly wicked.

One of the reasons why I was holding off was that I think it's now time to separate out the numerical marks section to a new page, to give more room for the keymarks page to grow. I've done that now (even though it's pretty rudimentary).

I think I have updated the Liddle and Keymarks pages with your stuff, Jem, but you could give it a glance-over to be sure. I haven't got to the Metzler page yet, and I really have to get some work done, the whining of the starving children is becoming distracting.

There's also some new stuff on the Keymarks page. A summary table of marks by Maker helps us see who has used keys from more than one source.

Start at http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/Keymarks.htm

Terry