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 Post subject: Re: Irish style
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:11 pm 
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benhall.1 wrote:
Nanohedron wrote:
I was just rambling earlier

Yes, I thought so.

:)

It's stream-of-nanoconsciousness.

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 Post subject: Re: Irish style
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:15 pm 
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Nanohedron wrote:
benhall.1 wrote:
Nanohedron wrote:
I was just rambling earlier

Yes, I thought so.

:)

It's stream-of-nanoconsciousness.

Tiny stream, then?

:)

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 Post subject: Re: Irish style
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:16 pm 
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... probably more like a drip ... :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: Irish style
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:22 pm 
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benhall.1 wrote:
Tiny stream, then?

:)

Tinier than that.

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 Post subject: Re: Irish style
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:32 pm 
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How tiny, this tiny;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3o8vsU0Dw-4 ?


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 Post subject: Re: Irish style
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:07 pm 
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Sorry; I watched it, but wouldn't you know - I got distracted by the other videos.

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 Post subject: Re: Nano style . . .
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:16 pm 
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You're 3 Xs a nano, Nanohedron. I'd be very concerned if you weren't distracted away from that clip.


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 Post subject: Re: Irish style
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:18 pm 
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Reptilian shapeshifters, man. They have proof.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:50 pm 
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Don't know what that means, but then you can post whatever response you feel like posting.

Thank you & good night.


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 Post subject: Re: Irish style
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:51 am 
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Writing about musical styles is like writing about sex. If the reader has no experience in the topic, then all the words in the world are pretty pointless.

benhall.1 wrote:
BTW, Cathy, there's something that I've been puzzling about to do with hornpipes (and reels) for the last few years. I agree with you that hornpipes seem linked in four pairs of notes whereas reels seem linked in two fours within a bar. However, a very well known musician at a summer school the other year (4 years ago?) suggested that pulses might be two in a bar for hornpipes and four in a bar for reels. It's had me thinking ever since.


In highland piping we write hornpipes in 2/4. The basic melody structure is written as two groups of four 16th notes. Writing them in 4/4 might have come about as a way to cut the publication cost. Or it might just be a difference of opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: Irish style
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:48 am 
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highland-piper wrote:

In highland piping we write hornpipes in 2/4. The basic melody structure is written as two groups of four 16th notes. Writing them in 4/4 might have come about as a way to cut the publication cost. Or it might just be a difference of opinion.


I choose B. :) I still hear them in 2/4. AND NOW, I think I now know why: it's the way they end. So many hornpipes I know finish with a |quarter note-quarter note|half-note feel. A random survey of the first three hornpipes that came to mind turns up ...


X: 1
T:Cork Hornpipe (Harvest Home) %fs1<bb
B:FS1.34b
F:023cork
M:4/4
L:1/8
Q:280
R:Hornpipe
K:D
A2|DAFA DAFA|defe dcBA|eAfA gAfA|(3efe (3dcB (3ABA (3GFE|
DAFA DAFA|defe dcBA|eAfA gece|d2f2 d2 :|
cd|eA~A2 fA~A2|gAfA eA~A2|eAfA gAfA|(3efe (3dcB (3ABA (3GFE|
DAFA DAFA|defe dcBA|eAfA gece|d2f2 d2 :|


X: 1
T:Tomorrow Morning
M:4/4
L:1/8
B:O'Neill's 1661
K:D
f-e \
| dAFA dfed | ecAc egfe | fafd Bged | c2 A2 A2 f-e |
| dAFA dfed | ecAc egfe | fafd Bgec | d2 d2 d2 :|
|: f-g \
| afdf a2 g-f | gece g2 f-e | fafd Bged | c2A2A2 f-e |
| dAFA dfed | ecAc egfe | fafd Bgec | d2 d2 d2 :|

X: 1
T:The Plains of Boyle
M:C|
L:1/8
K:D
FG|"D"AFDE FEDF|(3ABA "G"GB "D"AF D2|fedf "A"edce|"G"dBAB "C"=cA"G"BG|
"D"AFDE FEDF|(3ABA "G"GB "D"AF D2|fedB "A"(3ABA GE|\
"D"F2 D2 D2:||:fg|"D"afdf "G"g2 fe|
"D"dfed BAFG|(3ABA FA BAFA|A2 FA BAfg|afdf "G"g2 fe|"D"dfed BAFG|
A3 F "A"GBAG|"D"F2 D2 D2:|

Wha-hey! Mystery solved. It's that "dum-dum duuum" ending that has me hearing them in 2/4. I feel better, anyway :-D

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 Post subject: Re: Irish style
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:35 pm 
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Here are a couple published examples from 1905:

http://riffspot.com/music/title/m/marqu ... -hornpipe/
http://riffspot.com/music/title/c/coopers-hornpipe/

Harding's All-Round Collection of Jigs, Reels, and Country Dances

Apparently from a schizophrenic editor. OR maybe just reflecting on two different traditions?

That's actually a pretty neat book -- seems to live up to it's title ;-)


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 Post subject: Re: Irish style
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:16 am 
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This is just a guess, and I can provide no references for it, but I think the issue of which way to write hornpipes (and perhaps reels too) came from the traditional players who adhered to the "only crochets and quavers" rule. Most of the tunes in the irish tradition that are not in triple meters can be written with just two note lengths. Keeping it to just crochets and quavers meant that learners who wanted to read music really only had to learn about two kinds of notes and the 2 to 1 relationship between them. I suspect books that use other methods of notating the tunes may be folks trained in music where other combinations of notes would not be an issue. Think about the Beethoven slow movements that are notated in 32nd notes and 64th notes! (would that be hemi-semi-quavers and hemi-demi-semi-quavers??) I remember one of my friends telling me about asking an old trad player in Ireland if the last note was a half note (brev?). The response was "there are only two note lengths, crochets and quavers." My friend ended the transcription with a crochet and a crochet rest.


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 Post subject: Re: Irish style
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 3:41 pm 
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Sounds perfectly logical to me! Thanks for spelling it out a little better. I've gotten confused every darned time I try to tackle the whole crotchet-quaver thing, and take refuge in my "first language."

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 Post subject: Re: Irish style
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 8:15 pm 
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cboody wrote:
This is just a guess, and I can provide no references for it, but I think the issue of which way to write hornpipes (and perhaps reels too) came from the traditional players who adhered to the "only crochets and quavers" rule. Most of the tunes in the irish tradition that are not in triple meters can be written with just two note lengths.


The number of lengths is independent of the time signature.

Hornpipes, the way they're played, have three lengths of notes, unless you assume the reader understands the swing and write them straight.


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