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 Post subject: Re: Irish style
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:53 am 
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Location: Mercia
A couple of times at workshops I have heard it suggested to good readers unfamiliar with hornpipes that they look at a bar with 4 triplets, imagine it was a 12/8 bar, then think of the bars with 8 quavers as being in 12/8 with crotchet quaver pairs. It seemed to work as a starting point for getting roughly the right rhythm. Two note lengths and non of those little number 3s.


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 Post subject: Re: Irish style
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:48 am 
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david_h wrote:
A couple of times at workshops I have heard it suggested to good readers unfamiliar with hornpipes that they look at a bar with 4 triplets, imagine it was a 12/8 bar, then think of the bars with 8 quavers as being in 12/8 with crotchet quaver pairs. It seemed to work as a starting point for getting roughly the right rhythm. Two note lengths and non of those little number 3s.


That's way too much thinking for me :lol: -- just listen to someone play it the right way and do it like that.


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 Post subject: Re: Irish style
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:22 pm 
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highland-piper wrote:
cboody wrote:
This is just a guess, and I can provide no references for it, but I think the issue of which way to write hornpipes (and perhaps reels too) came from the traditional players who adhered to the "only crochets and quavers" rule. Most of the tunes in the irish tradition that are not in triple meters can be written with just two note lengths.


The number of lengths is independent of the time signature.

Hornpipes, the way they're played, have three lengths of notes, unless you assume the reader understands the swing and write them straight.


And that is exactly what I assume. swing is there in almost every tradition to some degree or another. To notate it accurately is almost impossible. Doing hornpipes with dotted eighth-sixteenth pairs or quarter eighth paris with triplet indication may make the transcriber happy, but it doesn't get very close to what really goes on. Listening is, as you say below, the solution.


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 Post subject: Re: Irish style
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:46 am 
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Location: Mercia
cboody wrote:
Listening is, as you say below, the solution.
I have a recording of one of the workshops where the 'more like' 12/8 message was given. The tune was written 'dotted' and a sizeable majority of competent players, good at sight reading but unfamiliar (apparently) with traditional music where confidently overdoing the swing. The leader was playing it more like quarter-eighth and the instruction reigned them in a bit. Those of us trying to learn the tune by ear appreciated that.

Are often they written dotted in collections to look different to reels on the page ?

If it had been written in 12/8 a fair number of us would have assumed it was an slide (until we heard it).


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 Post subject: Re: Irish style
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:31 am 
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david_h wrote:

Are often they written dotted in collections to look different to reels on the page ?


I think they are probably written dotted because it more closely resembles the way they are played.

Funny thing: in modern Highland piping, hornpipes are played pretty much straight, while the reels are played dotted.

Here's an example -- Dowcow Triumph Street playing Flashing Light Syndrome as their opening tune:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/events/ex6g9r/vide ... 7#p01fdksp


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