Anyone know what song this is?

[Oakstream]

If anyone know what this wonderful song is called, I would be very happy Cheers!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ot5Bt7-wHMc

[MTGuru]

It's called The Rochdale Coconut Dance, and is apparently an English morris tune.

http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/7715

[Oakstream]

THANK YOUUUU! All hail the hypnotoad!

[benhall.1]

As is my wont whenever I'm reminded of a tune, I looked through the info on the session.org link. Incomplete, of course, and very inaccurate. You'd be forgiven for thinking, from reading the stuff on the session.org, that this was a modern tune, which it isn't of course. I've known this tune, as far as I know, all my life and, according to The Fiddler's Companion, it seems to date from at least as far back as the 1850s, which makes sense to me as it has a definite 19th century feel to me. But there is a caveat in that article, effectively saying that it's difficult to trace the tune, or the dance, to before the 1920s.

For the dance, at least as I remember it, it would be played much slower than that Flogging Molly clip, and with a very heavy beat. The way they play it, I wonder if they know that it's an English Morris tune?

[Kypfer]

Bellowhead do an even livelier version of it here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3E34DL6L8Y

[benhall.1]

Bellowhead do an even livelier version of it here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3E34DL6L8Y

Yes. But then, I've never been enamoured of Bellowhead.

[MTGuru]

Yes. But then, I've never been enamoured of Bellowhead.

Well, I like it. It's like The Oyster Band meets Mexican banda sinaloense music.

I wonder if they know that it's an English Morris tune?

It's an odd St. Patrick's choice, not that their target audience probably really knows or cares. But Matt is playing what looks like a Morris-appropriate 3-row A/D/G box, not the usual 2-row Irish box, so I suspect they know the source.

[david_h]

... The way they play it, I wonder if they know that it's an English Morris tune?

(I am thinking Morris musician's and Irish tunes....)

Ahem, you could add something to the Comments on thesession.org Ben. The guy who quoted the bit about it being modern seems to have just been repeating internet rumours.

[benhall.1]

... The way they play it, I wonder if they know that it's an English Morris tune?

(I am thinking Morris musician's and Irish tunes....)

Ahem, you could add something to the Comments on thesession.org Ben. The guy who quoted the bit about it being modern seems to have just been repeating internet rumours.

Yes, I could. But I normally try to avoid adding anything too helpful on the session.org, in case it clashes with the rest.

[david_h]

Oh, tsk, tsk. I followed the link to the Fiddlers Companion. That caveat about the 1920's is in the context of the coconut dancers at Bacup, not Rochdale.

[benhall.1]

Oh, tsk, tsk.

Yes, I'm a bad, bad man.

I followed the link to the Fiddlers Companion. That caveat about the 1920's is in the context of the coconut dancers at Bacup, not Rochdale.

I've re-read it. It's not at all clear to me what it does mean. There seem to be a few caveats in there. For instance, it isn't entirely clear to me whether that article may be calling into question the existence of the dance in Rochdale, at whatever period. There's all that stuff about not finding other references and things. Maybe I'm just not reading it right.

My feeling about the tune remains that it sounds distinctly early 19c to me. But that's a subjective reaction. I'd like to see more work on the tune before I'd be reasonably convinced.

[MTGuru]

My feeling about the tune remains that it sounds distinctly early 19c to me. But that's a subjective reaction. I'd like to see more work on the tune before I'd be reasonably convinced.

When were coconuts invented? That gives you a definite terminus post quem.

[An Draighean]

When were coconuts invented? That gives you a definite terminus post quem.

"The swallow may fly south with the sun or the house martin or the plover may seek warmer climes in winter, yet these are not strangers to our land? "

[david_h]

At the other end of the time span, there were attempts by some to terminate the Bacup dancing due to the black faces and grass skirts not being appropriate in our multicultural society. Local groups maintaining dance traditions from the countries of their ancestors didn't think they were a problem at all and had performed at the same, multicultural, events. (Google will find it in the press).

[benhall.1]

My feeling about the tune remains that it sounds distinctly early 19c to me. But that's a subjective reaction. I'd like to see more work on the tune before I'd be reasonably convinced.

When were coconuts invented? That gives you a definite terminus post quem.

Yes ... hmmm ... not sure that helps. I've just Googled, and coconuts have apparently been in more or less widespread use in the UK since at least as far back as the early 16c. That's way earlier than I would have thought*. But, although I can't find the references now, of course, I'm pretty sure I remember scenes in Dickens where there are coconut shies at fairs, so they must have been common in his day at least.



*except that I've now found a site claiming that they became "known in the West" as early as the 6c. I'm not sure what that phrase means, though ...