Trad CDs and their Cost

[benhall.1]

Cathy - "$40 dollars - that's almost a tank of gas". When last week I filled our car - a Volkswagen Fox, by no means a "gas-guzzler" - according to an online currency converter, it cost me nearly $87. Just thought I'd mention it.

Yeah, and mine's a Renault Laguna - ordinary family car. Mine costs $130 to fill up at the moment.

[Jäger]

personally, Spotify infuriates me. I'm assured its all perfectly legal, and my fair share will..trickle down... But, we never *directly* agreed to having our full tracks available for free dwnld during a spotify users trial period. The other PPD's (pay per dwnlds) as you all know,upload only a preview slice.

Well, to nitpick, the tracks aren't available for download, they can only be listened to in Spotify (legally and with the support of Spotify, anyhow, but there are probably ways to get around that as well), and every time anyone listens to your track, it generates a tiny (emphasising "tiny" here) bit of money, adding up to the same amount of money if one person listens ten times as if ten people listen one time.

There are notable musicians that have specifically requested their material not be made available (through whatever deal has been negotiated) on Spotify because of this.

From what I've heard in media, the foremost reason for artists not wanting their music on Spotify is simply the reason that the amount of money made from being played there is absolutely miniscule.

I'm in no way supporting Spotify, I'm just trying to clear up what little of the business that I know. And I know that the founder and owner of Spotify is making a wagon load of money as I'm typing this, and the company is worth umpteen millions of dollars/pounds/euros, steadily going on billions, and should he decide to sell it, the founder wouldn't need to lift a single finger again in his life with the money that he's made, while the artists get ridiculously small fees (the latest report I read was that a UK-based artist would get £0.0012 for each song played).

According to this source, for a musician to earn an american minimum wage of $1160/month, s/he would need a whooping 4053110 plays on Spotify each month. Count 'em, that's over four million of them. For a minimum wage. That's not a lot of money trickling down to the artist, in the end.

But who cares, as long as Daniel, the by now 29 year old founder, has his Ferrari, right?

[CHasR]

not nit picking at all! thanks for clarifying

[cunparis]

From what I'm reading, people object to spotify because not enough is paid to the artist. This seems like a very valid point.

I think spotify is a huge step in the right direction but may not yet be in the optimal state. If the owner is getting rich, don't worry the record labels will renegotiate to get their share.

Also another point to consider: I've discovered lots of artists via spotify, artists I would not have known.

It's not just spotify moving in this direction. Pay per view and video on demand is popular too. Paying per use makes a lot more sense to many consumers than does "ownership" (I put that in quotes because we really don't own it, record companies even tried keeping us from copying the discs and putting them on mp3 players.. Which is exactly when I stopped buying physical discs. This isn't the fault of the artists, the greedy record labels screwed it up. It will take some time to work out.

[Hotblack]

... I've discovered lots of artists via spotify, artists I would not have known.

Same here.....and then I buy their music, either mp3 or disc. Quite often I buy the disc (the quality is better IMHO) and, if possible, directly from the band/artist. I don't mind the extra expense if the money is going to the right people.

[Hotblack]

... also yesterday, I bought a CD by Mick Mulcahy from a local traditional music shop which I like to support. It was £12.95 = just over $20. Most of the CDs in his shop - "Celtic Chords", in Stonehaven, if you want to check the website - were between £14 and £15.
I have a note of some of the prices I paid for CDs in various years in the past - eg

"Trian 2" - 1995 - £14.00
"Island Angel" - "Altan" - 1993 - £12.99
"Feadog Stain" - Mary Bergin - 1993 - £12.99 . Peter's shop is selling this same CD for £12.95, so that price hasn't changed in 19 years.

I'm not really seeking to make any point here, other than to show that in my experience, buying traditional Irish CDs in Scotland, the price hasn't increased significantly, and certainly not in line with inflation, over the last 20 years.

IIRC when CDs first became available in about 1983 they cost a (then whopping) £10 each. A rise of 2-3 quid in 30 years.

[Gabriel]

I like that gas analogy. Fueling up my car (an Audi A1 which eats about 2 gallons diesel per 100 miles if I drive carefully) costs me $80.

I'm too young to remember how CD prices over here were in 1983, but I remember paying about 30 DM for a CD shortly before the change to the euro, and that equals to about 15€, which is the common trad CD price today. And going to the gas analogy again, a gallon diesel cost about 3.60 DM back then, which equals to about 1.80€. Today it's 5.50€.

[tin tin]

Here's an interesting reflection on this fracas from a musician's perspective: http://gordonwithers.com/post/255970915 ... ay-forward
He says the best return for the artist comes from buying directly from the artist (website or in person) or from Bandcamp.

Part of our issue with the cost of recordings--as consumers--is we want to consume so much (and there's a lot out there to feed that desire). It's normal for us to have days, weeks worth of playing time on our computers or in our CD collections. I wonder if that doesn't somehow cheapen recordings. If one views an album (to use a dated term) as a musician's opus, isn't that like a painter's painting? You don't see paintings selling for $20. (Although maybe prints is a better analogy--but they still usually cost more than CDs.)

[Mrfinnj]

As a reseller of CD's i can tell you that trad CDs are usually some of the priciest for us to buy at wholesale , you can easily spend up to €10-11 to buy in a CD for stock and then of course you have to add on VAT and a profit for the shop,with even a modest margin its quite easy for CDs to hit the €17-20 retail price.

Im guessing its because of the lower amounts manufactured

[Mr.Gumby]

It is probably worth realising then wholesalers/distributors buy CDs for a measly €7 out of which the artist will have to fund getting the CDs to them.

Most shops do not buy CDs (unless they buy from a distributor ofcourse). They take them on sale or return which puts the burden of financial risk squarely in the lap of the artist. Not to mention the burden of checking whether or not the sale or return batches are sold or not. No retailer will send you the message your wares have been sold and certainly won't volunteer one accompanied by a cheque. It's constant checking and hoping you will get paid on the occasion you turn up. Or at all, in some (too many) cases. I suppose that's all included in the final tally as well.

Buy straight from the producer/artist. Cut out the middlemen!

[highland-piper]

IIRC when CDs first became available in about 1983 they cost a (then whopping) £10 each. A rise of 2-3 quid in 30 years.

Well, yeah, but they lost an anti-trust lawsuit as it was discovered they were price fixing.

If I like a musician who is selling CDs (trad, pop, whatever) then I buy one.

I know that in the Scottish Game venues some of the larger games don't pay the artists at all, while some pay a little.

[cunparis]

Most shops do not buy CDs (unless they buy from a distributor ofcourse). They take them on sale or return which puts the burden of financial risk squarely in the lap of the artist. Not to mention the burden of checking whether or not the sale or return batches are sold or not. No retailer will send you the message your wares have been sold and certainly won't volunteer one accompanied by a cheque. It's constant checking and hoping you will get paid on the occasion you turn up. Or at all, in some (too many) cases. I suppose that's all included in the final tally as well.

Buy straight from the producer/artist. Cut out the middlemen!

That was very interesting, I was not aware of all those issues an artist has to face when selling their CDs.

I don't know why an artist would go through all that. Why not just sell mp3 directly on their website and have a limited number of physical CDs produced to sell direct at concerns, etc.

From an environmental point of view, does it make sense to have factories printing machines, trucks, boats, and airplanes hauling them all over the world, etc. for something that can be sold direct in digital form? Look at the guy who paid for Kevin Crawford's latest CD and it was lost in the mail.. twice. Had it been available online, he could have purchased it and listened to it a few minutes later.

I haven't purchased a new physical CD in a long time. For a while now my purchases have all been for mp3 at cdbaby or amazon. I believe those sites make it very easy for the artists to check their sales and collect their money.

[Mr.Gumby]

A lot of people who are interested in Traditional music in Ireland would only buy a CD, not download. Speaking for myself, I have never bought a download of music in my life. MP3 sales are not too easy to set up, or weren't last time I looked, and quite large volumes of sales are needed to make it worthwhile.

I sent out a fair number of CDs (1000++) through the post and lost only one. Not a huge problem.

[maki]

I like CDs, and don't ever recall buying downloads either.
Maybe I'm of an age that only trusts a hard copy.
That will probly change soon though, as so much is only availible digitally.

Mr. Gumby, are you still selling your CD ?

[Tor]

The only .mp3 files I download are those 'sound sample' snippets from the various whistle reviews posted here. For music I prefer non-lossy formats (i.e. not mp3) and a physical CD. Or a vinyl record, for that matter.. I also don't want to have to use a computer to listen to music in general, and I don't walk around with an mp3 player - I don't need or like or want to listen to music while I do other things, and anyway I don't have ears made for those ear-buds you get these days (the buds would fall out - there's nothing holding them). So downloadable music in mp3 format has only downsides, to me.

-Tor