It's always bothered me that I haven't heard the lyrics to any of the slow airs I play.It seems to me that if you don't know the words, you could end up accenting the wrong notes and phrases. I guess my question is how close do traditional players follow the vocal line when playing slow airs.
Take care, Johnz
Sean Nos, slow airs
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StevieJ
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Good point, John.
Most of what ITM musicians call "slow airs" are the airs to sean nos songs in the Irish language, and you will often hear or read that one should not attempt these airs without knowing Irish and being thoroughly familiar with the words of the song in order to avoid the problems of phrasing you mention.
Observing this rule would effectively prevent most of us from ever attempting any of these airs, which would be a shame. I play a few, nearly always learned from a recording, but I'd think twice before performing any of them in front of "those who know".
I think that many prominent musicians in Ireland do take the trouble (if they are not singers or fluent Irish speakers themselves) to learn airs from the singing of a sean-nos singer.
Then again there are certain airs for which I believe the words are no longer known - isn't this the case for the Wounded Hussar as played by Ennis, and maybe the Dear Irish Boy as well.
The latter air I have heard recorded by many musicians from Bobby Casey to Tommy McCarthy to Leo Rowsome (I think, on the Drones and Chanters) and others I can't recall just now, and the variation in phrasing is huge.
It's certainly an interesting question.
Most of what ITM musicians call "slow airs" are the airs to sean nos songs in the Irish language, and you will often hear or read that one should not attempt these airs without knowing Irish and being thoroughly familiar with the words of the song in order to avoid the problems of phrasing you mention.
Observing this rule would effectively prevent most of us from ever attempting any of these airs, which would be a shame. I play a few, nearly always learned from a recording, but I'd think twice before performing any of them in front of "those who know".
I think that many prominent musicians in Ireland do take the trouble (if they are not singers or fluent Irish speakers themselves) to learn airs from the singing of a sean-nos singer.
Then again there are certain airs for which I believe the words are no longer known - isn't this the case for the Wounded Hussar as played by Ennis, and maybe the Dear Irish Boy as well.
The latter air I have heard recorded by many musicians from Bobby Casey to Tommy McCarthy to Leo Rowsome (I think, on the Drones and Chanters) and others I can't recall just now, and the variation in phrasing is huge.
It's certainly an interesting question.
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daveboling
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On this same line of thinking, can anyone recommend a Irish language book with cd/tape with which they have had good results? Isn't the Irish government pushing/requiring Irish language instruction in the primary schools? If so, are those books/tapes available? I know many students here in the southern US (where english is taught as a second language 
) would have been quite willing to sell someone their english textbook.
Best Regards,
dave boling
) would have been quite willing to sell someone their english textbook.Best Regards,
dave boling
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aliceflynn
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The Dear Irish Boy, also known as Connor's Return, is definitely a song still well known. The lyrics are even available in English from the out of print collection by Herbert Hughes from the early 1900's (Irish Country Songs).
I posted the lyrics on Mudcat forum a few years ago.
I sing the song and also play it on the whistle. As a singer first and a whistle player second, I think it is extremely helpful to know the song when you are trying to learn it as an instrumental air. The first I transfered from my singing to whistle playing was Anach Cuain... still prefer it as a song, since you can hear the story, but it makes it loads easier to play on the whistle when you can already sing it.
Alice Flynn
I posted the lyrics on Mudcat forum a few years ago.
I sing the song and also play it on the whistle. As a singer first and a whistle player second, I think it is extremely helpful to know the song when you are trying to learn it as an instrumental air. The first I transfered from my singing to whistle playing was Anach Cuain... still prefer it as a song, since you can hear the story, but it makes it loads easier to play on the whistle when you can already sing it.
Alice Flynn
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aliceflynn
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leipreachan
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I agree that understanding the words helps to understand where the composer was coming from and the sentimnents they wanted to put into the song but i dont think it would be wrong to play an air as a melody in its own right.Besides many airs,being lost in time now have a variety of different lyrics attributed to them.Also, on the subject of sean nos, ive just started to get really interested in it..does anyone know of any sites where i might be able to listen to some as im having difficulty getting hold of any tapes/cds.Thanks
PS:good luck with the learning Irish thing dave, I was brought up speaking it a bit but have forgotten most so am trying to relearn it.Its one of the hardest languages ive come across though, even with a couple of fluent speakers around me.The best books ive found are the "Teach Yourself" ones.
PS:good luck with the learning Irish thing dave, I was brought up speaking it a bit but have forgotten most so am trying to relearn it.Its one of the hardest languages ive come across though, even with a couple of fluent speakers around me.The best books ive found are the "Teach Yourself" ones.
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U2
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Regarding words to slow airs: I am interested in the air Easter Snow. I understand Seamus Ennis fondly referred to the mobile home in which he lived until he passed by the name "Easter Snow", and that many attribute the piece to Ennis. Is anyone aware of words to the tune or additional information?
Edited for spelling.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: U2 on 2002-11-21 12:55 ]</font>
Edited for spelling.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: U2 on 2002-11-21 12:55 ]</font>
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TonyHiggins
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Considering how many melodies have a variety of words put to them, I'd consider the sean nos words to be one version of the tune. An instrumental rendering, I would consider a different version. Is one more official than the other? If you're going to sing it, then I'd say the sean nos version is the one you should stick with. Myself, I have no idea which tunes have words and which don't. I've have a cd with a sung version of Eanach Chuin (in Irish). I'd love to know what the words are (in English). In the meantime, it's just too good a melody to not play because I don't know how many syllables are in the phrases.
As far as playing in front of people who know the difference, what are the chances of that happening. (Or the chances I'll care if they dissapprove of me?)
Tony
Tony
As far as playing in front of people who know the difference, what are the chances of that happening. (Or the chances I'll care if they dissapprove of me?)
Tony
Tony
http://tinwhistletunes.com/clipssnip/newspage.htm Officially, the government uses the term “flap,” describing it as “a condition, a situation or a state of being, of a group of persons, characterized by an advanced degree of confusion that has not quite reached panic proportions.”
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The Weekenders
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I wish to recommend the Eist (Songs in their Native Language) compilation cds. I have two volumes of them. Premier singers do the very classic songs that we like to whistle like Taimse Mo Cholaidh and eamonn a Chnoic. There are a few modern ones but it really gives you a feel for the tunes.
AND, best of all, all lyrics are printed in Irish w/English translations. The other Weekender is actually trying to learn Mo Ghile Mear phonetically.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: The Weekenders on 2002-11-21 13:30 ]</font>
AND, best of all, all lyrics are printed in Irish w/English translations. The other Weekender is actually trying to learn Mo Ghile Mear phonetically.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: The Weekenders on 2002-11-21 13:30 ]</font>
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aliceflynn
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I don't think I said you HAVE to know the words to songs that are airs, I just mean it helps if you do. Of course they can stand on their own as an instrumental air. I do think it brings something to the tune to have the song in your head as you are playing the melody. There is an added element that seems to come from phrasing the emotions that adds depth to an instrumental air.
Alice Flynn
Alice Flynn