Slip Jigs, jigs, Double jigs

FJohnSharp · Post by **FJohnSharp** » Sun Sep 15, 2002 9:58 am

Please explain to me the difference. Also what is a slide? It looks jig-like as well.

Thanks

Teri-K · Post by **Teri-K** » Sun Sep 15, 2002 10:51 am

On 2002-09-15 11:58, FJohnSharp wrote:
Please explain to me the difference. Also what is a slide? It looks jig-like as well.

Thanks

Basically, you're talking about rythms. This is just an overview:

A jig is a 6/8 dance tune.
A double jig is very similar to a jig, with the measures divided into triplets.
A slip jig is in 9/8
A slide is usually in 12/8 with emphasis on the first note in each bar (more predominate in County Kerry).

Teri

Whistlepeg · Post by **Whistlepeg** » Sun Sep 15, 2002 9:23 pm

If you don't read notation well, sometimes it helps to think of jigs like this say them then clap them to hear the rhythms:

The most common jigs sound in 2 beats per bar like:
6/8 Jig-e-ty Jig-e-ty / Jig-e-ty Jig-e-ty /

Single jigs sound in 2 beats per bar like:
6/8 Hump-ty Dump-ty / sat on a wall

Slip jigs sound in 3 beats per bar like:
9/8 Jig-e-ty Jig-e-ty Jig-e-ty /

Slides are like very fast jigs and sound in 4 beats per bar like:
12/8 Jig-e-ty Jig-e-ty Jig-e-ty Jig-e-ty /

Eldarion · Post by **Eldarion** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 12:01 am

Thats a really nice way of explaining it Sue!

dlambert · Post by **dlambert** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 8:25 am

I think that everyone learing Irish music should go to a Feis (an Irish dancing competition) there's sure to be one close to you sometime soon. It's very instructive to see the dance that the music was written for. slip jigs are almost exclusively danced by the girls. sometimes they are referred to as a hop jig. double jigs are danced with hard shoes, slip jigs with gillies or soft shoes. single jigs are rarely danced. mostly only by beginners.

make sure you stay for the championship dancing. The rythms of the reels, jigs and hornpipes are infectious. I got hooked into the music through my kids dancing.

FJohnSharp · Post by **FJohnSharp** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 9:01 am

Great. Thanks all.

gogo · Post by **gogo** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 10:15 am

One thing I've always found interesting about dancing/rhythm: many (maybe most) step dancers (in the US anyway, I don't know that this is the case in other parts of the world), when they're starting out, don't know much at all about music, but it doesn't take them long to be able to hear the differences between the different dance tunes.

But if you were to tell most dancers that a slip jig is in 9/8 time, that wouldn't mean anything to them; they count slip jigs in "5s": 1-(pause)-2-3-(pause)-4-5-(pause)-and-1-(pause)-2-3-(pause)-4-5-(pause)-and... They're hearing the first and third beats of each triplet.

Whistlepeg · Post by **Whistlepeg** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 10:35 pm

Gogo,
So do tune players. That is how they decide on phrasing, rolls and on whistle & flute where to take breaths

gogo · Post by **gogo** » Tue Sep 17, 2002 9:36 am

On 2002-09-17 00:35, Whistlepeg wrote:
Gogo,
So do tune players. That is how they decide on phrasing, rolls and on whistle & flute where to take breaths

Ah! And I thought it was just me, because I danced before I played. I obviously don't talk to other players often enough.

The Weekenders · Post by **The Weekenders** » Wed Sep 18, 2002 1:13 pm

I appreciated the jig distinctions but the slide in 12/8 thing gets me. I have been listening to Julia Clifford a lot who was pretty big with the slides and I don't hear it. Maybe more listening....

But its just notation anyway. I guess everybody knows that Cherish the Ladies is notated in 12/8 in Krassen's Oneills.. Peter L says its a double jig but Coleman played in with more of the Humpty feel....

Any other ideas about Cherish the Ladies, nomenclature-wise or tune-type?

SylvainM · Post by **SylvainM** » Thu Sep 19, 2002 9:25 am

On 2002-09-18 15:13, The Weekenders wrote:
I guess everybody knows that Cherish the Ladies is notated in 12/8 in Krassen's Oneills.. Peter L says its a double jig but Coleman played in with more of the Humpty feel....

I didn't know about Krassen's Oneill's, and I'm a bit surprised. I've always seen that tune written in 6/8, including in one of O'Neill's original books (the 1001 I guess).
I've always thought of it as a double jig, but now I don't have Coleman's version.
In all the playing I've heard, it's an almost uninterrupted sequence of eighth notes, with very few quarter notes, so it qualifies as a double jig. (That those eighth notes are to be played with slightly unequal lengths is another matter.)

Musically speaking, there is nothing wrong with writing double jigs in 12/8. Actually, back when I was doing transcriptions from my favorite records and had never looked at any written Irish music, I was doing that. But if there is a common usage, it's always best to conform to it, unless there's a particular reason not to do so, and here I don't see any.

Sylvain

The Weekenders · Post by **The Weekenders** » Thu Sep 19, 2002 10:46 am

Thanks for answer Sylvain. Yeah, it is notated that way in the Krassens. if you are interested, i can send you an Mp3 of Coleman playing it for study (send me PM of email that can handle file). Id be happy to.

He uses a very forceful downbeat and I have wondered what was up with that.

staten island · Post by **staten island** » Thu Sep 19, 2002 3:24 pm

Yes, you should go to a feis. I dance, and really the only way, for me anyways, to really understand the music, as well as differenciate between tunes, is to think like I'm dancing.

fluter_d · Post by **fluter_d** » Thu Sep 19, 2002 4:28 pm

I have to concur with staten island. I danced for years before I started to play music, and now I find that I differentiate tune types, particularly slides and dbl jigs, by the steps that naturally fit with the notes. Completely understandable, since ITM is a dance music tradition... and when playing for dancers, if you get the wrong tune/type, they'll let you know! I think that if you can pick up the rhythmic inflections of a tune, whether or not you know exactly what type of tune you have, then you're doing fine. The only time it bothers me is if I'm transcribing, and I can always write it in notational 'shorthand' - note names only - so I can remember it later.
Good luck!
Deirdre

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: fluter_d on 2002-09-19 18:29 ]</font>

staten island · Post by **staten island** » Fri Sep 20, 2002 3:41 pm

What I'd like to know is how exactly non-dancers differenciate between tunes. I just can't imagine being able to without being a dancer.