Lilting...

brownja · Post by **brownja** » Fri Aug 16, 2002 12:39 pm

On 2002-08-08 09:03, Kevin Popejoy wrote:
There's a nice bit of lilting on Colm O'Donnell's "Farewell to Evening Dances". If you don't have this one you should. Very fine whistle, flute, and singing throughout.

Kevin Popejoy

I concur, it's a wonderful cd.
There's also some lilting on Mike + Mary Raffety's cd's "old fireside music" and the new who's name escapes me.
Cheers,
jb

Bloomfield · Post by **Bloomfield** » Tue Aug 20, 2002 9:30 pm

For the academic interest in the lilting/lip whistling phenomenon I am not going to make fair use of an older field recording. The tunes are The Blackbird and Rights of Man. The man is given as Francis McKearn or Francis McKeown, from Garrison, Co. Fermanagh. (Source: Traditional Songs of Ireland, Saydisc Records. Field recording by Peter Kennedy/Folktracks, 1952)

I'll keep this up for a few days. Let me know what you think. And has anyone heard of Francis from Garrison?

Best

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/bloomfield

[ This Message was edited by: Bloomfield on 2002-08-20 23:32 ]

cowtime · Post by **cowtime** » Thu Aug 22, 2002 8:27 pm

I was lucky enough to get to hear a piper do just what Teri-K is talking about when I was at the North American Academy of Piping and Drumming last month. (I was studying my drumming). He sang the tune,explaining that there are specific sylables for each note on the pipes, like HA or Hey. Anyway after he sang it, he played it on pipes. Quite a demonstration. This is one of the ways they kept the tunes alive after the outlawing of piping.

zlee · Post by **zlee** » Fri Aug 23, 2002 12:35 pm

I was lucky enough to be able to interview Buddy MacMaster for The Celtic Cafe last year. We talked about lilting a bit, before and during the interview. Mr. MacMaster said that "jigging" (apparently they don't call it lilting there) was a way for a musical person to give music out without being able to play an instrument. He talked about his grandmother: "My mother's mother, she was great at jigging or lilting--whatever you want to call it--or mouth music we call it sometimes. She used to jig tunes for her kids, she enjoyed that, watching kids dancing. She was a very joyful person, she was very musical, though she didn't play any instrument. The music was in her, you know."

I've also heard that the lilters saved a great many of the tunes when playing the music was banned in Ireland, and also that when an area didn't have its own musicians, it was the lilters who sang for dancers and the dancing at parties and other celebrations.

I work with quite a few beginning players as I help to run a tune-learning session once a week. It's almost impossible for me to tell if a player who isn't particularly facile on their instrument has got a tune if they won't sing it back to me (as often times they don't have the skill to get a tune out of the instrument even though they have learned the tune). My own teachers, Matt and Shannon Heaton, felt that every player should be able to sing their tunes through, even if it's not pretty.

Zina

[ This Message was edited by: zlee on 2002-08-23 14:36 ]

[ This Message was edited by: zlee on 2002-08-23 14:37 ]

Walden · Post by **Walden** » Fri Aug 23, 2002 11:33 pm

On 2002-08-22 22:27, cowtime wrote:
He sang the tune,explaining that there are specific sylables for each note on the pipes, like HA or Hey.

Would that mean it's more a form of solmization rather than scat?

I see, from Roger O'Keeffe's post, that the pipers' solmization form is Scottish, whereas Irish lilting is random.

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[ This Message was edited by: Walden on 2002-08-24 01:42 ]

Teri-K · Post by **Teri-K** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 7:47 am

On 2002-08-24 01:33, Walden wrote:
On 2002-08-22 22:27, cowtime wrote:
He sang the tune,explaining that there are specific sylables for each note on the pipes, like HA or Hey.
Would that mean it's more a form of solmization rather than scat?

I see, from Roger O'Keeffe's post, that the pipers' solmization form is Scottish, whereas Irish lilting is random.

You're comparing apples and oranges here. The piper's solmization, as you call it, is canntaireachd: a system for verbal transmission of bagpipe music in which notes and embellishments have been assigned unique sounds and names. It is very structured, specific to piobaireachd, with absolutely no elements of improvisaion as in scat, and completely different from "mouth music".

Teri

MarkB · Post by **MarkB** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 7:54 am

Lilting, diddling, jigging what ever it is called I love it. I use it to teach the bodhran to students, to get the tune in their head, it helps with the rhythm and to learn and remember the tune.

It also helps me on the whistle, all though I can lip whistle all the tunes in key, and have whistled while playing the bodhran at a session, something that I have been able to do since I was a kid.

And at times have pulled the fiddlers jewels out of the fire when they forgot how a tune or set of tunes go when performing, I just jig it for them.

Mark

Whistlepeg · Post by **Whistlepeg** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 12:51 pm

Garry Shannon (flute) has a CD called "Loozin' Air". I enjoy his flute playing, and on the last track he lilts (overtracks the flute). Really he is
"taking the Mickey" but I think he does a great job on the lilting, I find the fun infectious.

Walden · Post by **Walden** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 11:47 pm

On 2002-08-24 09:47, Teri-K wrote:
You're comparing apples and oranges here. The piper's solmization, as you call it, is canntaireachd: a system for verbal transmission of bagpipe music in which notes and embellishments have been assigned unique sounds and names. It is very structured, specific to piobaireachd, with absolutely no elements of improvisaion as in scat, and completely different from "mouth music".

Yes.

ChrisLaughlin · Post by **ChrisLaughlin** » Sun Aug 25, 2002 6:30 pm

I love lilting! I lilt out loud wherever I go. It's a great way to get a tune really deeply and to explore variations and ornamentation. I don't take it seriously, but I've had a number of Irish musicians tell me I'm the best lilter they've ever heard and that I should enter the Fleadh in the lilting competition :roll: I suspect this might not be as much of a complement as it would seem, especially since nobody has ever said anything like that about my flute playing

I've taught some whistle and flute lessons and I always insist that my students learn to lilt the tunes before they attempt to play them on the flute. I really believe that if you can sing it then you can, without a heck of a lot of trouble, play it.
Diddly dum,
Chris

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[ This Message was edited by: ChrisLaughlin on 2002-08-25 20:31 ]

mike.r · Post by **mike.r** » Sun Sep 29, 2002 6:33 pm

The Chieftans A celebration CD has Van Morrison lilting his own tune Boffeyflow & Spike, and is one of the album highlights.

Mike

Nutsmuggler · Post by **Nutsmuggler** » Tue Oct 01, 2002 2:38 am

I've tried to lilt myself many times, I mean, to lilt effectively, and I found the ariculation of the syllables extremelt difficult.
Yet I must say that just after an Irish (gaelic) class my lilting is usually much better; I'd say that the sound usually employed in lilting have a lot to do with the phonemes of Irish; so, once my mouth was 'configured' to speak Irish, the lilting flew out easily.

AaronMalcomb · Post by **AaronMalcomb** » Tue Oct 01, 2002 8:39 am

There are several sources for good canntaireachd. One is the Ancient Piobaireachd albums by Willie Barrie in which several piobaireachd are sung with instrumental accompaniment. A series of tutorial CDs were released featuring P/M Donald MacLeod singing the canntaireachd for tunes.
At Piping Hot Summer Drummer, a piping and drumming school put on by the Simon Fraser University Pipe Band, all of the pipers are required to sing the canntaireachd of the ground and first couple variations of a piobaireachd.
A great example is on Simon Fraser University Pipe Band's "Down Under" CD in which the pipers sing the canntaireachd to the ground of a piobaireachd then follow it up by playing some of the remaining variations together with harmonies. I believe a RealAudio clip is available on their website. http://www.sfupipeband.com/html/media.html
Canntaireachd and lilting are great ways of illustrating how if you can sing a tune, you can play it.
Slainte!
Aaron

[ This Message was edited by: AaronMalcomb on 2002-10-01 10:42 ]