Bloomfield wrote:
My point is: Much in these discussions about "misleading music" or "the tradition" etc. is driven by people who think that they know what ITM is, but they don't, like Johnny Hip. They've listened to Enya and Riverdance and are ready to sit in on a session where they get offended for being asked not to play washboard or hammered dulcimer.
I am making a deliberate choice not to take offense at this, and I hope it was meant neither for me nor for where I live.
--James
Think about it, Jim, then you won't have to make a deliberate choice.
As to the washboard and dulcimer, I could have mentioned nyckelharpa and djembe just as readily, and you know it.
The oddest (other than the trumpet) we ever had was a guy playing a melodica on his lap via a rubber tube, ugly lime green plastic. A pro piano player, he did it enuf justice once he didn't need staff notation for a tune or two, but one of the geezers was calling him "that poor retarded boy" until I set him straight that the guy was just playing fast and loose with a traditional setting.
Last edited by Nanohedron on Wed Apr 30, 2003 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
susnfx wrote:Interesting, Bloo...but it raises a question in my mind. I've used this illustration before, but will use it again here:
At the Belfast Harper's Festival in 1792 (I believe that was the year) ten harpists came together to play traditional Irish music. Only one of them, a 90-year-old man, still played the "traditional" way - with long fingernails. Does this mean that the true traditional way of playing harp was lost at that time and no one since then (who doesn't play with long fingernails) has played truly traditional harp?
If the rules of ITM are as hard and fast as chess, where's the line?
(or did I miss the point - again?)
Susan
Hmm this is a little OT but I've heard a few things from my obsessed harp learner of a friend who is hell bent on figuring out how to play the harp in a traditional bardic style. If I'm not wrong it was from this harp geezer that Edward Bunting the harp music collector got a lot of the music in his collection from. According to the version of the story my friend relates to me that the old guy with the long fingernails was supposedly one of the last of harp players from the olde tradition in that particular festival.
Needless to say the old bardic harp tradition is further lost to us now, after the destruction of the bardic order and persecution. Most of the "Celtic/Irish" harpists nowadays use harps fitted with nylon strings instead of the old brass wire ones. The style and plucking techniques are all adapted from the Western Art Music traditions. Techniques like dampening, essential to the playing of the brass wire harp are no longer commonly used.
Bloomfield wrote:
As to the washboard and dulcimer, I could have mentioned nyckelharpa and djembe just as readily, and you know it.
At least you're not stucked with a recorded player in your sessions. We are, and he *thinks* he's playing ITM!
Yikes! Djembe or dumbek are worse, though, they're too loud for a session setting. These sorts of percussionists just make me wish I had a Turkish shawm so I could flatten them up against the walls for a bit.
Eldarion, a friend of mine plays (and builds) wire-strung harps and has long fingernails. His teacher is Ann Heyman. I love the sound of both, but wire harp sounds so much better, IMHO (then again, anything hearking back to ancient origins gets my vote ). If your friend needs contacts, perhaps I could be of some assistance if you send me a PM.
Eldarion wrote:
Needless to say the old bardic harp tradition is further lost to us now, after the destruction of the bardic order and persecution. Most of the "Celtic/Irish" harpists nowadays use harps fitted with nylon strings instead of the old brass wire ones. The style and plucking techniques are all adapted from the Western Art Music traditions. Techniques like dampening, essential to the playing of the brass wire harp are no longer commonly used.
Just for the sake of completeness: there is a growing international wire harp community, with a considerable number of people reviving the historical playing techniques. It's not an unbroken tradition, but it's not dead either.
I'm glad that youve met him. Yeah, he plays well, and for sure that's not the point. It just doesnt sound irish, but for someone like him, it's not important. The problem at the end is that you end up having someone playing his own tunes his own style, at a rythm that sucks when it comes to ITM, and the chemistry between musicians at the session is going havroc. He's been one of the main reason why I avoided that particular session on saturday night, because he was always there. But now that session has been partly cancelled, altough he will show up elsewhere. If he could just get his recorders stolen or something, that would help us
Yeah Az, the worst part was that he did, completely, dominate the session, because he was playing a loud instrument, with a very distinct sound, with a style, rhythm and ornamentation unsuitable to Irish music. It was kind of funny seeing Tommy Peoples try to play along on his fiddle 'recorder style'.
Chris
This thread has been a serious eye-opener for me! I've been playing contemporary American folk rock for years, and started to really get into roots the past three or four, and it brought me to Appalachia and Bluegrass. I ran across a Chieftains CD called "Down the Old Plank Road" in the Bluegrass section one day and picked it up-- since then, I've been trying to get into the genre, but my music stores only carry very accessible commercial music. The Chieftains are, believe it or not, the most traditional Irish music that I've found. So... I'm totally lost. The more I've explored this message board, the more confused I've gotten. Is there a resource for newbies like me, who want to get really steeped in the traditions but have nowhere to start? Bloomfield talked about this, but didn't offer a solution. Would it be beneficial to start a 'FAQ' for beginners? Or could you just tell me about some artists to check out?
Welcome to c&f, Aaron. Check out the "Beyond the Bothy Band" thread, the CD recommendations there are great. Also if you are new here, you may not have found the transcriptions page.
That is the real stuff. I think that should give you enough to start with, and you can always ask here for recommendations, or when you find a CD that looks interesting, but you're not sure what to make of it. I am only starting down that road myself, and I find that I will listen to this or that recording very intensively (like on repeat, for days), rather than rotating through my CDs. I also find that learning a tune by ear is the best way to listen to recording. (Everybody whose playing I respect has said that learning by ear is essential.)
). If your friend needs contacts, perhaps I could be of some assistance if you send me a PM.
