Chiff and Fipple Forums

I've been watching the news a lot, following events in England, which are consistently in the "wow you could not make this up" category.

My understanding--which is limited and may be wrong--is that in the 20th century ITM in Northern Ireland was clearly and unambiguously identified with one side, and practiced only by people on that side. Is that correct?

I'm wondering if that has changed at all over the last say thirty years. It would seem that it would be easy to identify certain tunes/styles as "scottish" and thereby make them easily shareable, or an expression of commonality. I don't intend this to be a political post, just a question about the music "scene" in NI.

My understanding--which is limited and may be wrong--is that in the 20th century ITM in Northern Ireland was clearly and unambiguously identified with one side, and practiced only by people on that side. Is that correct?

I don't think that is correct. People from 'both traditions' played and play traditional music.

Mr.Gumby wrote:

My understanding--which is limited and may be wrong--is that in the 20th century ITM in Northern Ireland was clearly and unambiguously identified with one side, and practiced only by people on that side. Is that correct?

I don't think that is correct. People from 'both traditions' played and play traditional music.

Same songs? overlap? or a different repertoire?

The real pdf link has disappeared but here’s an example of traditional music from Ulster

https://docplayer.net/21149091-B-flat-m ... flute.html

Also anything by accordian stu on youtube

https://m.youtube.com/user/AccordionStu

Here is a nice presentation by Rev Gary Hastings and singer Brian Mullen.

PB+J wrote:Same songs? overlap? or a different repertoire?

No authority, here, but I would say it depends on the musician or their immediate milieu. I can only draw on my own experience, which is not an Irish one, but the US sessions I played in had Miss McLeod's, The Tarboulton, 100 Pipers, Atholl Highlanders, what have you - Scottish tunes aplenty, yet our Trad community is much represented by Catholics and, needless to say, nationalist sympathies, although these were usually not aired. None of the native Irish in attendance objected to such tunes, and would even start them. Also needless to say, we played these tunes in an Irish fashion, something my Scottish friends were prone to point out; such tunes have a long history in the Irish tradition regardless of ideology. A lot of my ITM friends went regularly to Ireland - north, south, east and west - and they brought back what was lately going on musically, as well as which way the wind was blowing in other matters, so we weren't living entirely in a bubble. Ultimately nobody really cared where tunes came from so long as they were good, and good for all - and that is the glue that held us together. I will say, though, that whenever I hear a Unionist-sourced rendering of a tune I know, while it won't sound exactly Scottish to my ears, it will seem to be subtly different, stylistically, from the way I'm used to it; that's really the main difference, but my observation may not stand up to scrutiny every time.

Personally, I would venture to assume there's going to be a good deal of overlap, because I've heard of priests playing in otherwise Protestant sessions and vice versa; there should be nothing so unusual in that, these days. But of course some tunes do not cross lines well on account of the intensity of their political overtones. That said, there's a story from a well-known musician (a fluteplayer IIRC, but I don't remember his name) who was forced to wait in his car while an Orange parade was blocking traffic for some time, but because of the wait he was able to learn a tune they played, so to him that made up for the inconvenience.

In short, the lines appear not so firmly drawn.

The link for the method book for the Bflat marching flute that I mentioned above seems to be back online: http://ulster-scots.com/uploads/1221893901853.PDF

A superb episode of Coppers and Brass covers this subject. https://vimeo.com/85430841

buskerSean wrote:A superb episode of Coppers and Brass covers this subject. https://vimeo.com/85430841

Thank you very much! I have never seen this series! Is it specific series? or it's about common things? I know what will i do on this weekend

It's a series of 12 programmes on various aspects of ITM eg session etiquette, competitions, travelling pipers etc.

Coppers and Brass has 2 seasons on Vimeo plus an hour long special on traveller pipers. There is also a superb related book, Free Spirits. https://pipers.ie/store/products/free-spirits/

PB+J wrote:My understanding--which is limited and may be wrong--is that in the 20th century ITM in Northern Ireland was clearly and unambiguously identified with one side, and practiced only by people on that side. Is that correct?

It isn't entirely true, but it would have been more correct in 1980 than in, say, 1930. There have been significant cultural fault lines in Northern Ireland for a while, but "jigs and reels"-style traditional music was shared by both sides. However, you're right that that style of traditional music has very successfully been branded as quintessentially "Irish," and as the lines sharpened in the midst of the Troubles a lot of Unionists would have moved away from playing trad. The same is true on the opposite side for flute bands and lambeg drumming, both of which have Unionist connotations today but would have been common on both sides of the political aisle. Gary Hastings' presentation that Mr. Gumby linked to is a great overview of the very complex situation regarding music in the North.