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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:53 pm 
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Seriously, what is the real name for this jig?
"The frost is all over"..."Kitty lie over"..."What will we do when the kettle boils over"..."Paddy's return"...
Has there ever been a more disputed tune name?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:16 pm 
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It's by no means the only one at all, but it certainly does seem to get the most airing-out. The Session's a great place to find alternate tune names; for example, in their entry for The Silver Spear, you get this:

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Also known as An TSleá Airgid, Joe Mhaire Mhicilin, The Old Silver Spear, The Silver Tip, Sliabh Bána, The Top Of The Cliff.


Abandon hope. :twisted:

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:14 pm 
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To make matters worse, there are at least two distinctly different tunes with both of the names "Kitty Lie Over" and "The Frost is All Over".

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:06 pm 
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I do know of one tune with a known original name (as documented, anyway, so if any came before it they're lost to the mists of time), and that would be O'Farrell's Welcome To Limerick, to be found in O'Farrell's Pocket Companion for the Irish or Union Pipes, ca. 1820. A very common name for it nowadays is in Irish - An Phis Fliuch - and basically all of the other names surrounding this tune are simply a subset body of euphemistic but witty reworkings of the Irish name, which in English would be too vulgar to repeat here. But I could wriggle a bit and admit that I will occasionally call it The Damp Cat. 'Nuff said, I hope. I don't know if the following is true, but the lore I've heard is that the Irish name was given to it in mischief and on the fly by Willy Clancy during a performance, and it stuck - and created a monster.

Being a bit demure, I stick more to the original, myself. Plus, it sounds rather grand.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:47 pm 
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Nanohedron wrote:
I don't know if the following is true, but the lore I've heard is that the Irish name was given to it in mischief and on the fly by Willy Clancy during a performance, and it stuck - and created a monster.


By all accounts, Willie did not have the Irish, though he admired it greatly and wished he did.

I've heard a similar tale except it was Seamus Ennis instead of Willie. Seamus did have the Irish, so perhaps possible.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:53 pm 
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Maybe it was Ennis cited in the lore, then! I've been known to mix up the two for some idiotic reason. Was Ennis also known as an incorrigible wit? That's part of the background story as I heard it.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:46 am 
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To make matters worse, there are at least two distinctly different tunes with both of the names "Kitty Lie Over" and "The Frost is All Over".



On top of this The Frost is all over seems to have picked up a third part around here and everybody plays it now.

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By all accounts, Willie did not have the Irish, though he admired it greatly and wished he did.


It's slightly more nuanced. Willie wished he had a complete fluency in the language. He did have some: local accounts have it he could manage simple conversations but he felt he didn't have enough. On his statue it says 'The Irish language is the greatest music of all', reflecting his feeling about this:

Image

In the Phis Fliuch story it is usually Willie who came up with it. And it would be typical for his prankish sense of humour. In one story, which included the Wet Phish bit (and note that in Irish, like in English, 'phis' can can have both meanings, feline or otherwise), he was invited for a recording session and gave similar risque turns to all tune titles. It was not broadcast. See also his G version of the Fairy dance/reel, he called it the Jolly Banger. Gael Linn listed it as 'Jolly Bangor', on the 78rpm they called 'Down the back lane' 'Willie Clancy's' because of a perceived indecent implication of the title Willie had given them. They were different times.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:16 am 
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Mr.Gumby wrote:
Quote:
To make matters worse, there are at least two distinctly different tunes with both of the names "Kitty Lie Over" and "The Frost is All Over".



On top of this The Frost is all over seems to have picked up a third part around here and everybody plays it now.

Quote:
By all accounts, Willie did not have the Irish, though he admired it greatly and wished he did.


It's slightly more nuanced. Willie wished he had a complete fluency in the language. He did have some: local accounts have it he could manage simple conversations but he felt he didn't have enough. On his statue it says 'The Irish language is the greatest music of all', reflecting his feeling about this:

Image

In the Phis Fliuch story it is usually Willie who came up with it. And it would be typical for his prankish sense of humour. In one story, which included the Wet Phish bit (and note that in Irish, like in English, 'phis' can can have both meanings, feline or otherwise), he was invited for a recording session and gave similar risque turns to all tune titles. It was not broadcast. See also his G version of the Fairy dance/reel, he called it the Jolly Banger. Gael Linn listed it as 'Jolly Bangor', on the 78rpm they called 'Down the back lane' 'Willie Clancy's' because of a perceived indecent implication of the title Willie had given them. They were different times.


Thanks Peter; one of those times when I wish this forum had a "like" button.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:36 am 
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An Draighean wrote:
one of those times when I wish this forum had a "like" button.

It does. To be able to see it, you have to really believe in it though. :wink:

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