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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:00 am 
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If you don't know the tune, don't play.

The end.



NB: I am posting this as an individual and not in my capacity as Moderator. My views as expressed in this thread are my own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of The Board, its staff or its vast retinue of subservient minions.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:06 am 
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benhall.1 wrote:
If you don't know the tune, don't play.

Och, Ben, all you need to know is the keys are D, D and G...

(Not!) :P

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NB: I am posting this as an individual and not in my capacity as Moderator.

Hopefully a statement of the unnecessary when:
1. I'd never have thought you were.
2. It's not in red.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:16 am 
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Yes you're right Peter that my last statement may have been unnecessary. However, even though I wrote it in a slightly jokey way, I did think it was worth putting something along those lines, just to be clear.

And yes, I've had a bad guitar experience. (In case you were wondering. ) But it applies equally to players of the bodhrán and other accompanying instruments.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:52 am 
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Of course you can take this further when you have two or more accompanists (or even just one!)...

Whose chords are you using and have you both/all got the same ones? What kind of chords are they (i.e. standard 'beginner' guitar shapes in standard tuning or, for want of a tidier description, the sort of pedal-pointy, added-/subtracted-note, open-tuning-style stuff you can also expect to encounter to at least some degree in idiomatic keyboard playing)? What kind of rhythm styles and how do these complement/interact with the melody? Is this accompaniment acceptable to the melody player(s)? (Unlikely when you don't know the tune, but not a given when you do!)

For what it's worth, I play guitar, but don't accompany reels, jigs etc. with it (haven't got the right feel). I own a bodhran, but haven't played it for years and am not sure I ever really could. I do use (and like playing) piano for trad, but have to think hard about what I do with it when the first things to come to me are rarely what I aspire to but can still achieve quite nicely with appropriate work on the tunes.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:27 am 
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It's OK to play if you treat the tune sort of like jazz. I find that really adds something to a session!

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:06 am 
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s1m0n wrote:
It's OK to play if you treat the tune sort of like jazz. I find that really adds something to a session!

I don't know whether this is satire or not. On the assumption that it's not, I would find that sort of behaviour just rude.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:50 pm 
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benhall.1 wrote:
s1m0n wrote:
It's OK to play if you treat the tune sort of like jazz. I find that really adds something to a session!

I don't know whether this is satire or not. On the assumption that it's not, I would find that sort of behaviour just rude.


What can I say. I got a great deadpan. This board would be a lot easier if Dale would install that irony font I keep asking for.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:42 pm 
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Why just restrict it to "guitarists and other accompanists" ? Doesn't it also hold true for players of "melody" instruments ?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:45 pm 
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I think Ben must've had a traumatic experience.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:22 pm 
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Nanohedron wrote:
I think Ben must've had a traumatic experience.


Maybe we should leave him alone. Ben, you've been trolled, but you reacted badly.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:12 am 
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kenny wrote:
Why just restrict it to "guitarists and other accompanists" ? Doesn't it also hold true for players of "melody" instruments ?

The thing is, melody players may, on occasion, be guilty of noodling, usually very quietly, through an unfamiliar tune. That can be irritating. But they never thrash away at full volume on the wrong chords in the wrong key and the wrong rhythm. Noodling from melody players detracts; but the habitual actions of seemingly the majority of accompanists destroys.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:21 am 
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benhall.1 wrote:
The thing is, melody players may, on occasion, be guilty of noodling, usually very quietly, through an unfamiliar tune. That can be irritating. But they never thrash away at full volume on the wrong chords in the wrong key and the wrong rhythm. Noodling from melody players detracts; but the habitual actions of seemingly the majority of accompanists destroys.


Absolutely. When I'm not teasing Ben, I firmly agree.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:52 am 
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Quote:
The thing is, melody players may, on occasion, be guilty of noodling, usually very quietly, through an unfamiliar tune. That can be irritating.


I think Kenny means that your problem is with poor playing, not so much with a particular group of instruments.

There are plenty of melody players who have all the tunes but are somehow off in their internal rhythms, the ones that constantly push and pull as you try to keep things together. They are the really frustrating ones as far as I am concerned, they're the ones who appear unable to listen to what is going on and tear on regardless.

It's not the instrument, it's who is driving it.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:24 am 
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Mr.Gumby wrote:
I think Kenny means that your problem is with poor playing, not so much with a particular group of instruments.


Poor playing for sure, but I think Ben's point is that there are some instruments in particular in which loud bad play seems endemic. Ignorant guitar players is where it's coming from. I doubt that Ben has anything but ample reason for his recent rant. Even if I found the chance to troll the OP irresistible.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:30 am 
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Mr.Gumby wrote:
Quote:
The thing is, melody players may, on occasion, be guilty of noodling, usually very quietly, through an unfamiliar tune. That can be irritating.


I think Kenny means that your problem is with poor playing, not so much with a particular group of instruments.

There are plenty of melody players who have all the tunes but are somehow off in their internal rhythms, the ones that constantly push and pull as you try to keep things together. They are the really frustrating ones as far as I am concerned, they're the ones who appear unable to listen to what is going on and tear on regardless.

It's not the instrument, it's who is driving it.
Bad playing is one thing. And it can be frustrating and require far too much effort on the part of the decent players in order to control the excesses of the poor players. But still, accompanists are unique in playing not only badly, but when they don't even know the tune. And I just wish they'd stop. You never know, maybe if they listened every now and then instead of blindly thrashing, they might even learn a few tunes and be appreciated for the ones they've learned.

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