3/05/05 Greigg's Pipes/Calan Bridge

TonyHiggins · Post by **TonyHiggins** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 3:21 pm

03/05/05 Avery Levine (Unseen122) sends Greigg's Pipes/Calan Bridge reel set. He It is played on a Casey Burns Boxwood Pratten Flute in D. My Comments are: Not flawless, but it should give you guys an idea of my playing. I played these too fast, but I play everything too fast when it is just me. The first tune I learned from Lunasa's Redwood, the second tune is by Niall Vallely and is played on "Callan Bridge" which is an album he made with his brother Cillian (from Lunasa). I may be putting some more up in teh near future." (saved in flute)

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:11 am

Avery has been given the advice to rest his case after the recent flutter of excitement. Apparently he has difficulty doing so.

I am not sure of what it is Avery is trying to convince us of here. I suspect however he is achieving something quite opposed to what he is aiming at.

Avery doesn't need to convince the forums of anything. It's time to get on with things without trying to make points, stretching the issue out will bring more distraction and division and will eventually only lead to insult being added to injury. That is not helpful. Let the dust settle. Please?

Unseen122 · Post by **Unseen122** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 2:49 pm

AaronMalcomb wrote:
Unseen122 wrote:You have never met me and never heard me play.
You're young and bold and quite sure of yourself. So give us a listen. Tony Higgins very generously hosts just about anybody's clips on his website. I'm sure a lot of us would like to hear what one of this forum's most enthusiastic participants sounds like.

This is why I chose to put up a clip.

Peter, please do not make assumptions about me, if you want to know why I do things. Send me a PM.

Avery LeVine

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:06 pm

By posting the clip you stretch out the whole affair, plain and simple. You give the impression you're trying to make a case for your assumption (one you have put forward a few times in your defence) you can play better than we think (a false assumption, you in fact sound a lot worse than I imagined). Intentionally or not, this thing is threatening to go on and on. I don't know if it's deliberate or just plain stupid timing, like your 'I think I can return now' hot on the heels of David's departure didn't make you look very nice, but it certainly has the effect.
I don't think there's particular ill will towards you here but lately you are stirring plenty of irritation by your actions, deliberate or un-intended . I say again: give it a rest to let things settle.

Unseen122 · Post by **Unseen122** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:33 pm

Point taken. Like I say, there is a lot of assuming going on (I do it myself), I don't mean to be mean and I am not trying to prove anything. I will continue to lurk for the most part, but sometimes I do need to correct an assumption made about myself.

I do ask, what mistakes to you notice? What were your expectations? I am open to suggestions/critique, but please voice them in a kind manner. I do know that it is not the most consistient tempo, but it is pretty good technique-wise, and I got lazy and didn't want to do it 10 times, so if I got through the first tune alright I kept going.

treeshark · Post by **treeshark** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:57 pm

I suppose it's fair to ask what could be better,
First the good things, you got through the whole lot, and kept some sort of tone going.

You are right, the tempo wasn't very reel like. I would advise to start on a polka or two, rather than a reel. To simple you say.. not so, to play a simple tune well is not easy.
It was far too fast, don't play faster than you can go without blurring things, if the notes get smeared together it ruins the tune. The way to play fast is to play slowly very well!
Phrasing, you neeed to break the tune into phrases, If somebody spoke to you in a rush of words like a machine gun you might miss the sense. Think of music as a conversation listen to people speak they have a tune to their sentences, there are subtle breaks and pauses. You need to work a lot on your articulation which was more or less absent.
Though it is good to have a high opinion of you abilities, it is also good to be realistic, if you are not it's hard to spot where you need to improve.
Have you heard Kevin Crawford play the tune you posted? It's on Wooden flute Obsession 2 I think, get it, play it a hundred times until it runs through your head as you walk, then try and play it.
Rob

Cathy Wilde · Post by **Cathy Wilde** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 5:12 pm

Avery, not to be a jerk or anything, but .... people like Peter have devoted decades to their playing. They're at the point where people pay them for their advice and opinions. They're at the point, in fact, where people travel great distances to pay for their advice and opinions. What you're asking Peter to go into specifics about would, I think, take a considerable amount of his time to discuss, and you're asking him to do it for no charge and little emotional reward at this point, either.

Forgive me if I'm jumping into something that's not my business, but since this is a public forum and you've "put it out there ".... if you're really serious about playing the flute, I would strongly suggest some instruction. This way, you get can get some proper feedback in a more appropriate setting.

As we all know it's not an easy thing to play, and it's even harder to play well. Which is why the people who are good at it deserve substantial respect for their time and experience.

But of course, that's just my opinion ... and FWIW, that's my last word on this subject. [CROWD ROARS WITH RELIEF]

Good luck to you, and here's to the journey!

Unseen122 · Post by **Unseen122** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 5:17 pm

treeshark wrote:I suppose it's fair to ask what could be better,
First the good things, you got through the whole lot, and kept some sort of tone going.

You are right, the tempo wasn't very reel like. I would advise to start on a polka or two, rather than a reel. To simple you say.. not so, to play a simple tune well is not easy.
It was far too fast, don't play faster than you can go without blurring things, if the notes get smeared together it ruins the tune. The way to play fast is to play slowly very well!
Phrasing, you neeed to break the tune into phrases, If somebody spoke to you in a rush of words like a machine gun you might miss the sense. Think of music as a conversation listen to people speak they have a tune to their sentences, there are subtle breaks and pauses. You need to work a lot on your articulation which was more or less absent.
Though it is good to have a high opinion of you abilities, it is also good to be realistic, if you are not it's hard to spot where you need to improve.
Have you heard Kevin Crawford play the tune you posted? It's on Wooden flute Obsession 2 I think, get it, play it a hundred times until it runs through your head as you walk, then try and play it.
Rob

If it was slower you would have heard all of the articulation I use, which is a lot. I have been told by other players that I do use a lot. If the notes are smeaed so are the cuts, taps, etc...

I do agree it is too fast, which is the thing I need to work on the most.

I have never actually taken the pharsing I learned on other isntruments and applied it to playing ITM on Flute. I will keep it in mind.

I do have to say that some mistakes are from recording. I am not used to recording myself playing solo Flute, so I did choke a little.

I am not worried about how good or bad my playing is, I play for fun. Although, I do know where I stand, and if I am insulted I have to back it up.

Kevin plays this on Redwood with Lunasa, I have probably listened to that album 120+ times, that was the first album I bougth by them, it is also my favorite. Did you listen to the second tune also? Just wondering as you only mention the first.

Cathy, I do see your point, but what Peter says is insulting (to me). If somebody is insulting me, it is only fair to ask them to back it up. By saying that it is worse than they expected, that shows me nothing. [/quote]

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:10 am

Avery, you're insulted when I say you don't live up to the expectations you have created yourself by telling us over and over you're 'pretty good' and much more experienced than we can expect? Get a life will you. Develop a thicker skin.

I know several dozen young players in the 12-18 age groups locally, they get on with things and enjoy playing away quietly. If you should ever have a chance to hear Brid O Donohue's 13-18 band play you'd hear a group with a load of flutes that would remind you of the Ballinakil, in sense of lift and rhtyhm, just wonderful. None of these people will tell you they are great and have been performing for years. They are just nice kids getting on with something they like doing and they do it well.

You ask what my expectations were, well, as I said above I am not unfamiliar with players from your age group so I expected your skills to fit into that bracket. On top of that, you have been telling us over and over you're well experienced ('performing since eleven') and play 'pretty good'. 'Much better than we would expect' even. I would assume you'd be able to live up to at least part of that image you've created. Not so, I am afraid.

What you need to do is sort out the basics: work on your intonation, a lot.
Play in time, keep a steady beat underlying the tune and develop a sense of the internal rhythm, get a pulse going, create 'lift'.

You should play by the phrase. The listener should get a sense of structure in the tune offered, play in a way to achieve that. In order to do so you need to develop an understanding of the music you're playing. Irish music is a multilayered thing, not a string of muffled and cluttered notes you roll off just to get to the end.

Develop your breathing and find proper places to take in breath (refer to : phrasing, rhythm). You need to clean up your ornamentation and play clear notes without muffling and obscuring bits. Create space in the tune so the music can breathe.

I don't think you played particularly fast but in future select a speed slow enough to get everything right. Speed will come but it should only after you sort the very basic.

You need to kick the attitude: the 'I got lazy' and 'I play for fun so I can't be arsed if it's good or bad' are pretty lame lines. Playing for fun means you don't have to get the basics like playing in time and in tune right. Is that what you're saying? Saying those things doesn't speak well for the regard you have for your listeners either. Do you think we are a bunch of morons you can dump anything on?

Overall you should develop a critical ear and the ability to listen to yourself and others in order to properly assess what you are doing.

Above all you should get rid of the idea you're brilliant, firstly because you're not, secondly because it doesn't look good on anybody, even when they are. Playing this music is about making the music shine to the best of your abilities, ego has no place in it.

Matt_Paris · Post by **Matt_Paris** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:48 am

Unseen122 wrote:If it was slower you would have heard all of the articulation I use, which is a lot. I have been told by other players that I do use a lot

Don't you think they could have meant you should use less articulation?

Just my 0.02€ : Cathy, as usual, gave you very good advice, and in a very kind manner. I think you should listen to her.

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:43 am

Avery, sound advice here, I'd take it and quit while you're ahead.

Unseen122 · Post by **Unseen122** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:04 pm

That was my plan Joe.