There are a lot of critics in this thread who have never posted any of their own piping.

Interesting thought. post an mp3 with every critical comment showing how it should be done

Do you need to play at the highest level in order to recognise good piping?

I think not.

If I were to be self-indulgent enough to post my playing here (or thesession.org or wherever), I would expect a heavy dose of criticism. That's the 'net for you.

I would honestly like to know how any of you can tell that it's 'bad piping' or that he has no technique. Fair enough if you didn't care for it, or if you think the UPs should not venture outside of tradition or whatever. That's just taste and opinion. But what makes you so sure that he couldn't turn around and play The Bucks with the best of 'em? What are you hearing that I'm not?

I'm not a piper. So I can't really tell on the technique front. But I liked it.

I am curious, though. What was wrong with it?

Well it is the first time I have heard Native American flute style techniques performed on a set of uilleann pipes, and I quite enjoyed that part of the tune.


David

"I would honestly like to know how any of you can tell that it's 'bad piping' or that he has no technique."
I can tell because I've been playing for 30 years.
and because I've also heard his rendition of The Coolin. Barely in control of the instrument; and then several yards of reverb added in lieu of tone.
How can you stray outside of a tradition that you demonstrate no evidence of being in in the first place?

Any critic can only give you their opinion ,you can either agree or disagree. If you like the piece ,thats great. Personally I didn't like it, the composition lacked any form or structure and I got the impression he was making it up as he went along, and what bensdad said as regard to the pipeing.

Maybe it would be a good idea for Carp to chime in and tell us a little more about his pipeing and what he had in mind with his composition

RORY

I thought it was an interesting experiment ... I never heard a chanter reed do some of those things before. What I found curious was that "those things" were consistent enough to seem (perhaps) intentional. Would such things qualify as a technique, even if not an accepted technique? (just pondering, & envisioning sitting home practicing those sounds with an ear to those results)

Not my cup of tea, but different drummers and all that ...

Well, I think there is a good deal more room in piping for music beyond the piping canon...and I find it, um, interesting to see where people go with the instrument. I am not at all keen on publicizing the instrument in a less-than-positive light however (i.e., played out of tune, or played out of tone).

I wasn't likening the YouTube piping video to the playing of John Coltrane. I was using Trane as an example of a person who could play within the idiom of jazz and then push the boundaries and break new ground for other like minded players such as Archie Shepp, Pharoah Sanders and even Albert Ayler to co create and expand further. My reasoning is that ALL these players weather you like what they achieved or not had a command of their instrument I.e they had chops and could play within the tradition or idiom they chose. They worked hard at perfecting their skills as musicians and performers.

To point out that the music in the YouTube clip was perfectly legitimate and it's up to the individual to enjoy whatever they wish to enjoy.
What bensdad is saying is that the performer has barely mastered the basic techniques and intricacies of this instrument. I have been piping for around 20 years myself and I would not say I have anywhere near perfected the Uilleann Pipes... But I have worked damn hard to become as proficient as I can be.

To clarify, I do think that a performer should have a good grasp of how to play his or her chosen instrument BEFORE venturing into new horizons.
BUT as I stated previously it matters not one jot if the listener enjoys the music thats all that counts... I'm giving my reasons why I think the performer needs to address some fundamental issues regarding technique.... But what do I know

(a) The player in the video is indeed an accomplished, or at least competent player, who has decided to play in an avant garde way and thrown all "normal" piping technique out the window, including the technique of keeping the chanter in tune with itself and having a decent tone.

(b) The player never had the technique in the first place but obviously can make noises which keep him happy and apparently a few people on this forum like it as well. C'est la vie. Not my cup of tea.

How do I know this? I've been playing and listening for eight years.

You seem a little too well balanced and surl-free to be a piper.

If you have an interest in North and South American Native wooden flute music, this is very interesting. That tradition encompasses subtle shades of structure, tone color, rythm, and an ornamentation style quite different than found in western music. Some seem to have the reaction when first hearing Native American Flute music that it all sounds the same-- but that can often be said for initial exposure to Irish trad, at least judging by friends introductions to the music. Or that it is "New Age". Rather, it is a deep and old tradition, that encompasses North and South America, with only a few master practicitioners left. I can't say I know enough about the style to say that the performance is traditionally rooted, or just improv based on a like of the music. I like what I hear though, and always appreciate when someone takes a chance with another style of trad music and improvisation.

I don't know, Elf. I practically have a PhD in surliness. Perhaps the sarcastic tone didn't get through the net.

The problem with point (a) is, why would you spend a gazillion pounds/dollars/whatever on a set of uilleann pipes and then deal with the hassle of keeping the damned things going if you wanted to play the Native American flute? Or make weird avant garde noises? Why not get a musical saw?