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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:30 am 
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Hello,

I need help. I am trying to find a source - diagrams/explanations etc. that will show the fingerings for trills/ vibratos on the uilleann chanter. I have tried searches - but have not come up with anything solid. Any navigation towards a helpful source would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:23 am 
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As far as I remember the fingering charts in the Rowsome tutor give some indication. Which fingers to use is however a bit arbitrary, as usual it depends on which fingers you already have off the chanter to play the note, the chanter/reed combination, what sort of an effect you want to create etc etc.

Experiment.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:55 am 
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Seamus Ennis's book, The Master's Touch, also describes trills, shivvers, etc.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:12 pm 
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As this is your first post, expect that people will wonder exactly what you mean.
If you're not a player at all, "trills/vibrato" might mean "ornamentation (in all its glory)," or perhaps you actually want to know how to play trills, and do vibrato!
Trills are pretty rare in uilleann piping. You might hear them as an alternative to a short roll on the high F# and E (pace Seamus Ennis, as PJ mentioned), and occasionally elsewhere in an O'Carolan piece.
Vibrato production is done with the fingers, over holes that are already open (as Mr. G mentioned). Precisely how depends on your particular chanter.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:52 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:28 pm 
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Thank you all for the advice and the diagram Rorybbellows! Much appreciated.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:59 pm 
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there's a type of trill that o'flynn does on an 'a' too - it seems to be something that only some people can do, i asked robbie hannan about it and he told me he couldn't do it properly - as for trills on second octave e i was always confused as to what o'flynn was doing on 'si beag si mor' before i finally realised he was trilling e with his f# finger not with g - i also remember hannan telling us about a student he had had once who wanted to know exactly how many notes there were in a trill which i think tickled him a bit


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:44 pm 
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Sean McKeown uses alot of, one or the other.Are they trills or vibrato ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ev-sZUBZwA

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:39 am 
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Trills and trill like figures were much more prevalent in older styles of piping, you'll find them in the old tutors and occasionally in the playing people like Patsy Touhey, Tom Ennis and some others who recorded on 78 rpms. Breandan Breathnach used to say Ennis could play his trills/shivers on any note, which was probably a remnant of the same old style.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:59 am 
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rorybbellows wrote:
Sean McKeown uses alot of, one or the other.Are they trills or vibrato ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ev-sZUBZwA

RORY


I am in no position to take the piss out of someone on the art of piping. But as a long-studying musician, vibrato should never be this fast. And indeed, most instrumentalists and vocalists will be instructed (or mocked) to slow down their vibrato if it is very fast. It is often the sign of an inexperienced performer. But this is outside the world of ITM.

Back within the world of ITM, fast vibrato is acceptable if not the majority. But for my taste, in this video, it is too fast.

*Note - this next bit doesn't particularly apply to vocalists, and depending on technique it doesn't always apply to stringed instruments.......
The most discernible difference between proper vibrato and a proper trill is the direction the pitch moves. For example, if the primary note is G, to play a trill you very quickly alternate between G and A. If you play a G and play vibrato, you will be taking the pitch flat from G, but really not all the way down to the next note. But regardless of how deep the vibrato is (depth is how far into the adjacent note you are going) - the direction of vibrato is down. A trill will always be expected to sound the trilled-to-note fully - which is different from vibrato, and it should be up to the next note.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:01 pm 
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As you said, you're in no position to take the piss out of someone on the art of piping.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:17 pm 
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bensdad wrote:
As you said, you're in no position to take the piss out of someone on the art of piping.


I couldn't agree with you more.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:47 am 
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About the speed of vibrato, yes it's often much faster in trad Irish music than in "art" music.

The thing I've heard a lot of jazz instrumentalists and vocalists do is start a long note nonvibrato, then gradually introduce vibrato, it getting stronger as the note is held. The vibrato is rather slow.

In Irish music it's often completely different with the vibrato commencing with full intensity at the attack of the note, a oftentimes towards the end of the note the vibrato will stop.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:11 pm 
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I'm a fan of slow vibrato. Even before I picked up a set of pipes, I had listened to over and over the piping of Paddy Moloney on Mike Oldfield's Ommadawn, with 3 minutes of heavenly piping and beautiful vibrato. Pipes begin at 7:10 on this youtube version

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vGJAbB5vhs&feature=related

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:50 am 
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ausdag wrote:
I'm a fan of slow vibrato. Even before I picked up a set of pipes, I had listened to over and over the piping of Paddy Moloney on Mike Oldfield's Ommadawn, with 3 minutes of heavenly piping and beautiful vibrato. Pipes begin at 7:10 on this youtube version

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vGJAbB5vhs&feature=related


Now there's a blast from the past - I haven't thought of Mike Oldfield in donkeys ages. I remember playing the Tubular Bells LP a lot when it first came out.

FWIW I enjoy a slower vibrato myself.

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