Chip and Dipple Forum

[Uilliam]

It's pointless trying to reason with you, you are a prehistoric blinkered dinosaur. This isn't meant to be an insult, just a statement of fact.
Have yourself a drink of whisky and lighten up.

OK



Bill yer right...I was getting a bit carried awa....I have no interest in em so I will stop inflamming them and get on wi ma life.Now yooo get back to work on dem real pipes.
So endeth this little debacle for it is time.
Slán Go Foill
Uilliam

[Pipewort]

Da music is da music; but I don't see any place here for discussions on woofers, tweeters, transistors, algorythemns, bass bias, and button settings.

Maybe their own sticky - but we don't like too many of those either.

Pwrt

[eskin]

Having a sticky isn't enough, it needs its own forum as there are a wide range of topics to discuss, not just one. I suggest it be called "Virtual Instruments and Apps"

[Mr.Gumby]

Does it need to be here?

You have a commercial interest in this. A good reason to start it yourself, rather than demand it be done here.

[eskin]

I no more a commercial interest than any pipemaker/flutemaker/whistlemaker on this board, and the discussion isn't so much about what I'm doing, but to have a place where all areas of the use of technology as learning aids and alternatives to the acoustic instruments can be discussed without upsetting those who have little tolerance for the existence of such things such as vPipes. Since the board policy was established by the admins and communicated to me, I've played within the rules for commercial postings for my work. The same rules would apply to a new board.

Again, more reason to have its own forum, if it isn't absolutely clear that there is no way that discussions on these subjects can be conducted in <this> forum without causing upset and inviting disruption. I only brought up my unit sales figures to demonstrate that there is strong interest in one aspect of what I'm talking about, but here, on one of the premiere piping boards in the world, there is no place for a hassle free discussion of what is for many, a very interesting subject.

It seems to me that both sides have presented both sides of the argument pretty clearly, I'll wait in the wings for the moderator's decision.

[Mr.Gumby]

the discussion isn't so much about what I'm doing

Well, you brought it into the discussion several times when it suited your argument. So apparently it is of interest.

But why feel C&F should set up a forum, where does the entitlement come from?

It's easy to set a private forum and keep the riffraff out if that's your concern.

[eskin]

I shouldn't have to setup a private forum for a subject of public interest (again, not just about my apps, the whole subject matter of v/w/x/y/zPipes style virtual instruments and the use of technology for learning and performance) because a few people think it's their job to police this board about what can and cannot be discussed, post inflammatory comments on threads for which they have no real interest causing the threads to collapse or be derailed.

I'm just saying based on my experience there is interest in the subject, and, if not obvious by now, there is a serious divide on this board in the subjects I and others have brought up related to the subject matter. If we can't co-exist peacefully on this board, and an aggressive moderation policy isn't desired, then a simple solution is to create another board where any discussion of the use of technology as an aid to the learning and performance of traditional music can be discussed by those who do have a strong interest in the subject without disruption by those who really aren't interested in the subject.

I guess one solution is to move all discussions of the subjects I've mentioned to the non-Uilleann piping board, but considering how truly useful many of these tools (beyond vPipes and apps) are to essentially all trad instrument players on these boards, I think it deserves its own home. Again, we're not just talking virtual pipes here, but all forms of technological innovation and its use in the study and practice of traditional music including:

Virtual instruments
Tune transcription aids
Dedicated tuners and tuning applications
Sample libraries
Physical and virtual MIDI controllers
Dedicated electronic instruments like vPipes
Distance learning and virtual sessions using VOIP
etc.

[Mr.Gumby]

I shouldn't have to setup a private forum for a subject of public interest

Yet you demand or at least expect other private individuals who run this forum do it for you?

[eskin]

MrGumby, stop trying to make this about me. Unless you're paying the bills for the hosting and the server, what say do you have in the matter? If you've only been here a month based on your join date, what do you know really about this board and community?

I'm just pointing out a need I see based on a repeated pattern of behavior by certain individuals, and a subject matter worthy of its own forum that is only going to become bigger over time. Aggressive moderation isn't going to happen here since I know how challenging it is for the moderators, so I'm suggesting, not demanding, a possible solution.

If, in the end, nothing changes, that's fine. Sad, but fine.

[Mr.Gumby]

Pulling seniority on me now? That's a bit desperate isn't it?

May I remind you you're not paying the bills here either so you have as much say in this as I have, or anybody else.

Of course you can always set up a poll to gauge interest.

[eskin]

No, not pulling seniority, just suggesting that maybe you haven't had enough time to fully appreciate the diversity of the community on this board.

It's really in the hands of the moderators now. I have nothing else to say so will get back to practicing tenor banjo.

[Bill Reeder]

...

I guess one solution is to move all discussions of the subjects I've mentioned to the non-Uilleann piping board, but considering how truly useful many of these tools (beyond vPipes and apps) are to essentially all trad instrument players on these boards, I think it deserves its own home. Again, we're not just talking virtual pipes here, but all forms of technological innovation and its use in the study and practice of traditional music including:

Virtual instruments
Tune transcription aids
Dedicated tuners and tuning applications
Sample libraries
Physical and virtual MIDI controllers
Dedicated electronic instruments like vPipes
Distance learning and virtual sessions using VOIP
etc.

I don't mind seeing discussion about vpipes, apps, and such on the Uilleann forum. I don't own v-pipes or an I-pod and, as things stand right now, I don't particularly envision having them in the future. So, knowing that these things exist and reading about them is just so much more information which neither threatens me nor fills me with disdain for the product or their proponents. I have no problem with reading the posts or skipping over them at my pleasure and I don't feel the need to have a separate forum for these kind of posts.

However, if the discussion is expanded to include Michael's list of the various forms of technological innovations, then I can see the benefits of having a new and separate forum. I'd probably read it simply because I'm completely clueless about them.

[hans]

Perhaps someone likes to set up a new website: virtualsessions.org
to house virtual sessions for people to join in with their so called "virtual instruments" (sort of a number of "virtual pubs" like chat rooms for "virtual music"), and a forum attached to discuss all things related. I am not interested in setting this up, because, for me, what is produced by these "virtual instruments" and electronic instruments in general is not music as I understand it, it is not music which moves me, but leaves me cold. It is my very personal opinion that music should be able to move me, touch my soul, have some emotional impact. Melodic lines produced with synthesised or sampled sounds just won't do this for me.

[eskin]

Bill, I wish everyone were like you, but unfortunately, not everyone shares your tolerant viewpoint and aren't able to simply skip those conversations they aren't interested in. Since aggressive moderation policies really can't be expected from this board (I know one of the moderators and realize how much work is involved), I'm proposing an alternative that isn't Uilleann pipes specific.

Hans, that's only one small aspect of what I'm talking about, this isn't about virtual sessions or replacing acoustic instruments with virtual ones. It's about the whole use of technology in the learning and performance of the music, as tools to expand and enhance one's ability to learn this music and instruments, not to replace them. And there may be others who are interested in virtual instruments for their own sake. This board itself is an example, rather than talking in person in a pub about the music, we're typing at each other from around the world. Its a tool for the acceleration of the exchange of information that provides value. A set of vPipes is a tool for someone who needs a set that plays independent of weather, or in headphones, the same thing can be said of use of computers and mobile device apps that have similar purpose.

That we can't have a discussion about tools without someone completely uninterested in the subject jumping in with a disruptive comment, then staying in the conversation defending their often narrow-minded viewpoint until the thread dies, is exactly why I'm suggesting an alternative forum, at least then, those with impulse control problems won't be tempted by thread titles to jump in.

[Uilliam]

Eskin I do so wish ye would refrain frae writing things aboot me without having the manhood to name names. ...I am not trying to collapse or derail this thread nor am I, as ye so eloquently put" blah di blah ..repeated pattern of behavior by certain individuals" when ye clearly mean me sayeth so.Tho ye do sound a bit like Mr Pot calling Mr Kettle.Mr Gumby is perfectly entitled to his views just as much as yersel.More so as perhaps his is reasonable without the inflammatory remarks.Again this is not aboot tolerance levels in which ye seem to demand we all share wi ye on this subject.If it where aboot tolerance then surely ye and yoor accolyte would display a little more. Or perhaps more than a little as ye are the prophet of it.
No..I am afraid the whole world and its Auntie is not going to jump and take note just coz ye say so.
Anyways whit happened to sitting in the wings?Once more I will now awa hopefully never to communicate with ye again,but I doubt that .Asking or wishing everyone to be as tolerant as ye ...thats a laugh .
Peace to wo/mankind with felicitations to all,including the unworthy ones...
Uilliam