Chip and Dipple Forum

[Hans-Joerg]

In my (slang) language "bagless people" has a pretty obscene meaning: (Male) people that have no scrotum/no balls ~ people who obey to absolutely everything.

[Uilliam]

Thankye for that illumination Hans...
Uilliam

[CHasR]

well i will boldy venture a relevant thought and say;
seeing a myriad number of unstoppable battery-pipes on the horizon;
the crucial issue is,
and the CRUCIAL issue is,
that technique and repertoire be transferred as precisely as possible from the acoustic instrument to the electronic one .

& Im saying this about EVERY e-pipe:

Nothing is worse than seeing a whistle, sax, recorder, or flute player plug in & pick up an elec-pipe, and perform a song sans gracenotes, as un-piperly as possible, using a bagpipe timbre.

The challenge (and responsibility) as I see it, is for e-pipemakers to insure that their inventions operate on the same exact complex principles that a reeded pipe does, requiring the same level of technical ability, expertise, study, and capability from the piper.

Because if yous drop the ball on that, every fool that can plop a grand on an e-pipe will not make the effort to learn what gives pipes their unique voice, and the soul of piping will melt into some general, incoherant vaugely woodwindish melting pot.
Like a synth player using a sax patch.

[eskin]

CHasR's comment is an example of why I think we should consider a separate forum for virtual instruments.

Any discussion of virtual instruments in this forum will be inevitably colored by comments along the line of "not as good as the real thing/who would want these?/this shouldn't be discussed here/put those things in the trash bin" rather than those who are interested in them for their own purposes being able to discuss them without others who have no interest in such things expressing how they shouldn't exist.

At least if it were a separate forum, we could discuss the vPipes and other technological innovations on their own merits, share observations, techniques, ideas for future devices, etc. without distracting from the main theme of this forum which is the Uilleann pipes in their original acoustic form.

[Jarlath.I]

and the CRUCIAL issue is,
that technique and repertoire be transferred as precisely as possible from the acoustic instrument to the electronic one .

The problem with this is that there is no one that could ever regulate this. I know a benefit is the ablilty to use headphones and play without bothering your sleeping family, but I see applications to do the opposite, ie plug into an amp and crank it up. Now you can play in a rock band and run around the stage like all the other instruments, only pausing for a moment to get the bottom of the chanter against another band member so you can jump the octive.

Just like the electric guitar, it has the opportunity to independently evolve. I believe there were also those who didn't like the idea of electric guitars when they came out, and if my memeory serves me, Andres Segovia, the great classical guitarist did not consider it to even be a guitar.

[hans]

I think a C&F forum for electronic instruments is a good idea.
I would not call it "virtual instrument" forum, but rather "Electronic Instrument Forum" (and some witty description line). Virtual instruments are still relying on some general electronic gadget, like a computer, or the internet, so "Electronic Instrument Forum" is more generic. With such a forum in place a lot of the aggro will disappear, and everyone will be happier. I am all for happier people!

[CHasR]

Im strongly trying not to make a good/bad value judgement on e-pipes vs. pipes at this time. Sorry if that came across.

What i'm trying to stress is, and what I feel is far more important; is that e-pipes need to adhere as closely as possible to what actual pipes can/cant do;

..in order to make a tangible disinction between a piper who knows the ace & deuce of pipery utilizing their obvious advantages;

...and a non-piper using e-pipes without understanding the intricacies of what it takes to make make a bagpipe chanter sound like a bagpipe chanter; i.e.- somoene playing un-idiomatically on a bagpipe patch on a wind controller. That's already out there. Hoping this is clear

For ex: by keeping the fingering exatcly the same, an 'incorrectly' fingered tone ought to sound crappy, or not sound at all, on an e-pipe. the result being, that in 'open' fingering mode, 1/2 closed fingerings will not work, & vice-versa.
OR, if on a reeded pipe , vibrato is deeper and wider on any given top hand tone using the RH long finger as opposed to the ring finger;
then the e-pipe would be wise to reflect this rather than apply some 'global' vibrato controlled by any finger...
OR, on pressure modulated 'bags'; the e-pipe maker would be prudent to find a way to make tones squeal when excess pressure is applied on a tone that dosent normally jump the octave on reeded pipes.
OR on a double chantered pipe, completely diferent spectra & audio channels have to be programmed in for each chanter, or else it will get masking problems. I guess for each reg, too.
Maybe what im saying is, dont make e-pipes too easy to play, like some kind of toy. or no one will want to put the time onto work on bagpipe-specific technique.






.

[straycat82]

I heard that Bob Dylan went electric... but I'm hoping it's just a dirty awful rumor.

[Uilliam]

Where does this all end?Who ma wee vpipers and appleteers is gonna pay for this new forum,manage it police it etc??Do ye not think there is quite enough work for Dale and the rest to be doing at the moment?We do not need another forum to massage the egos of one or two.As for a duty to realism etc..I think the only duty the inventor has is to make money.Go to the Music Genre Hybrids or if'n ye don't like that because it is too general,start yoor own forum and manage it.Good luck,goodbye, au revoir slán agat Cioa arrivaderla amici
Uilliam

[Nanohedron]

I think a C&F forum for electronic instruments is a good idea.
I would not call it "virtual instrument" forum, but rather "Electronic Instrument Forum" (and some witty description line).

"Gadgets And Doodads That Are Painfully In Tune" comes to mind.

Virtual instruments are still relying on some general electronic gadget, like a computer, or the internet, so "Electronic Instrument Forum" is more generic. With such a forum in place a lot of the aggro will disappear, and everyone will be happier. I am all for happier people!

Well, I'll say that the pro-new-forum camp is making some good arguments, so thanks. Gives me stuff to chew on.

Where does this all end?Who ma wee vpipers and appleteers is gonna pay for this new forum,manage it police it etc??Do ye not think there is quite enough work for Dale and the rest to be doing at the moment?We do not need another forum to massage the egos of one or two.As for a duty to realism etc..I think the only duty the inventor has is to make money.Go to the Music Genre Hybrids or if'n ye don't like that because it is too general,start yoor own forum and manage it.Good luck,goodbye, au revoir slán agat
Uilliam

Sympathy for the Devil's Advocate.

[CHasR]

We do not need another forum to massage the egos of one or two.As for a duty to realism etc..I think the only duty the inventor has is to make money.Go to the Music Genre Hybrids or if'n ye don't like that because it is too general,start yoor own forum and manage it.Good luck,goodbye, au revoir slán agat
Uilliam

& you forgot CIAO once again je suis desole
Agree w/Uilliam about forum though. Sad but true, the only responsibility on the inventor is to make money; yet if the users of a product start demanding more bells & whistles they wil get it. look at what electric keyboards were 25 yrs ago. Fender Rhodes', Hamond organs weighed a TON, Moog's took up a room, now all 3 fit in a thimble.
Musicians demanded more & more control parameters, manufactureres complied.
& a big cherry grin to you Uilliam peace

[Uilliam]

Mi dispiace molto il mio amico ho modificato il mio post
Ciao Uilliam

[ferris54]

Well uilliam, you`ve convinced me as to the error of my ways, so i`ve put the vpipes away, stumped up £8.50 to a seller in Scotland and got me some real pipes.
At the fear of ridiculing myself, i have uploaded this to youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cZC89rHb0Q

i`ve even got my daughter involved

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ewy4r6BHd40

[Uilliam]

I am glad yoor shoulder has healed so quickly.
Uilliam

[ferris54]

i dont know if it has yet.................only the coming days will tell