back D problems

anima · Post by **anima** » Tue Apr 02, 2002 6:31 pm

I'm having problems with my back D.

with even the slightest amount of extra pressure it "cracks" (kind of like how a teenage boy's voice cracks) and quickly loses tone to some other note (about a half tone off and sharper). The reed plays fine otherwise all the way up to high D (which doesn't crack). Any thoughts?

brendan ring · Post by **brendan ring** » Wed Apr 03, 2002 2:22 am

Nearly everyone has back D problems at some time. Some chanters are more prone to it than others, but it is usually a problem with the reed. I find it is usually a structural problem, check for leaks. It is probably a bad reed. It is not something you should have to control, with a good reed there is no cracking it should respond as strongly and purely as the other notes. Conventional wisdom has it that if the back D breaks or is weak or flat that you should cut a sliver off the top. Getting a great back D was one reason I learnt to make my own reeds.

Joseph · Post by **Joseph** » Wed Apr 03, 2002 2:18 pm

ANIMA,
I have only been playing since January but I too have problems with the back D break when to much pressure in applied. It can really become bothersome when playing in the second octave with more pressure and then going down and the back D .
Anyway, I don't know your whole moisture situation but here in Bakersfield it is pretty dry. I find that the back D % " more when it is dry and does not as much when there is more humidity. See if this is the case for you. I know that when I have the humidity up in the house (by running the shower or you can get a humidifier) the pipes on thw whole play so much better, including the back D.
Anyway, see if that works fr you.
GOD bless
Joseph

anima · Post by **anima** » Wed Apr 03, 2002 5:36 pm

ok, playing today I've noticed that the back D only sinks if I pump the bellows while playing back D...... so, it looks like this may be my technique as much as the reed (if not more). As long as I just don't pump on Back D I'm OK and it sounds great. I think I need to go back and work on steady pressure pumping/playing some more.

this thing drives me crazy, but I love it. It's a good crazy.

boyd · Post by **boyd** » Thu Apr 04, 2002 11:24 am

I managed to write my reply about Cnat here in the D section.
Have wiped it and put it in its proper place.

Boyd
http://www.strathspeyinmay.com

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: boyd on 2002-04-04 19:41 ]</font>

Steve Turner · Post by **Steve Turner** » Thu Apr 04, 2002 12:22 pm

Hello Anima,

Sorry to hear that you are having back D problems, but don't despair...its a common situation that can be dealt with

Sometimes I find that my back D becomes weak and that nudging the bridle up towards the top of the reed (towards the thin lips of the reed) helps stiffen the reed up slightly which gives a stronger back D that is more resistant to breaking. Of course, moving the bridle in this direction also makes the reed a bit louder in general...but a tiny adjustment shouldn't have too much effect on the temperament of the reed (by a tiny amount I mean 'fractions of a mm' at a time...gently does it!!).

If this adjustment doesn't help, you might want to think about cutting a spiders leg off the lips of the reed, but obviously this is a non-reversable step but one that often works when all else fails.

Good luck and please ask for further help if you need it

All the best,

Steve

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Fri Apr 05, 2002 2:08 am

On 2002-04-04 13:22, Steve Turner wrote:
Hello Anima,

Sorry to hear that you are having back D problems, but don't despair...its a common situation that can be dealt with

Sometimes I find that my back D becomes weak and that nudging the bridle up towards the top of the reed (towards the thin lips of the reed) helps stiffen the reed up slightly which gives a stronger back D that is more resistant to breaking. Of course, moving the bridle in this direction also makes the reed a bit louder in general...but a tiny adjustment shouldn't have too much effect on the temperament of the reed (by a tiny amount I mean 'fractions of a mm' at a time...gently does it!!).

If this adjustment doesn't help, you might want to think about cutting a spiders leg off the lips of the reed, but obviously this is a non-reversable step but one that often works when all else fails.

Good luck and please ask for further help if you need it

All the best,

Steve

I think it's more a matter of it being a problem in the design of the D chanter and a certain style of reeds.

As for the solution: I only get a back D [problem on my C chanter when the reed stiffens up ( eg in high humidity)and closing it helps.

All's relative I suppose

anima · Post by **anima** » Sat Apr 06, 2002 9:22 am

Thanks for all of your great advice everyone. I played with my reed today and have it sounding pretty good right now. I think humidity is the major factor for me. I moved the bridle up. down, left, right, backwards, forwards, over, under, all over the place - I'm actually not sure exactly what I did to it now

, but it sounds good. Oh well.....

Jeff

Brian Lee · Post by **Brian Lee** » Sat Apr 06, 2002 7:01 pm

I've also found my back D to have some difficulties recently.

Of all the notes in the scale, including bottom D, it takes the least amount of pressure. If I'm playing a fast scale up or down, it's impossible to let off the pressure fast enough and then bring it back up again to keep everything in tune. Does this sound normal?

I've tried rushing the bore, moving the bridle and just about everything I can think of, to no avail.

HELP!

Bri~

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Sat Apr 06, 2002 7:40 pm

possible solution: change reed

I have a few spare reeds that I often switch around depending on weather conditions as they each have slight differences. Today my back D was sinking under pressure, so I pulled a different reed from my stash that was perfect in every note except back D. It sounded like scraping nails on a chalkboard... just that one note! I tweaked and adjusted with no luck. I went back to my stash and found one reed that was slightly narrower in width and it works fine.
I'm curious if the back D problem isn't so much caused from the reed design (or condition) but a harmonic or oscillation within the chanter itself.
If anyone has experience making chanters, what's the reason for the location and size of the back D tone hole?? Is the intention only for comfort of playing and placed exactly under the thumb? are the back D's in chanters that aren't prone to this problem located differently? say, a smaller tone hole slightly higher... or the inside of the bore undercut to soften an edge?

This comment may open up a can-o-worms, then again, it might not.

lemonsquash · Post by **lemonsquash** » Sat Apr 06, 2002 11:47 pm

Ok, I've read the three pages of crossfire on concert pitch versus flat pitch pipes. How about a little discussion on B versus C pipes? Go on, you know you want to.

anima · Post by **anima** » Sat Apr 06, 2002 11:51 pm

I thought I had it fixed, and then tonight the frigging back D is all over the place again. Argghhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jeff

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Sun Apr 07, 2002 4:26 am

What's the percent of relative humidity you're playing at?

Brian Lee · Post by **Brian Lee** » Sun Apr 07, 2002 8:09 am

Tony, your advice is sound (no pun intended) but what if you only HAVE one reed!? As much as I'd love to have a stash of twenty or thirty, I can't afford to buy that many, and I certainly can't MAKE my own yet!

B~

anima · Post by **anima** » Sun Apr 07, 2002 9:06 am

the humidity is about 50% in the house and I play with a humidifier at my elbow. So probably higher in the pipes.

My pipe maker is sending me 2 more reeds to try, so we'll see.

Jeff