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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:13 pm 
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Here is another example of a 'budget set' that is utterly useless for anyone earnestly, and honestly interested in learning the Uilleann Pipes. The reeds for these things are molded plastic that do not produce a sound anything like a real reed, in addition to that, they do not work well at all in the second octave.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Uilleann-Pipes-Prac ... dZViewItem



On a whim a few years ago, I puchased a set of these at a garage sale, and wasn't very surprised when I got them home and tried to get them to work.

Here is yet another one to beware of:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Uilleann-Pipes-Prac ... dZViewItem

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Last edited by Joseph E. Smith on Tue Nov 15, 2005 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:53 pm 
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BTW, the two photos above are copyright. Isn't it board policy to not violate copyright?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 8:32 pm 
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Jan Erik wrote:
Isn't it board policy to not violate copyright?


No. It isn't necessarily board policy, as much as it is copyright law.

Thanks.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 1:16 am 
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Hi all, here's my question;

Why don't people just give away or lend out their practice sets?

If you're selling a practice set, why not give it a fair and reasonable price for someone who wants to get into piping? Remember your own difficulties with both time and money in obtaining a good quality practice set. After all, are we doing this for the love of the music or the acquisition of the tool ?

For me, forcing learners to either save for a long time or jump at questionable or just plain bad deals because value=money and nothing else is somehow contrary to the reason music gets played.

And no, I'm not suggesting some kind of consumer's revolution against people who make these pipes. Practice sets that get passed around and are generally liked will probably improve that maker's reputation and hence business.

I know that good sets are hard to come by and more and more folks want to give it a try. (Must mean they like the music.) I know that to buy a practice set and then buy a half, 3/4, or full set is just more financial pressure than some folks can carry. I also know having a bad instrument can really turn learners off not just that instrument but also their ability to play music. Face it folks, it you're rich enough to buy a set of UPs, you're rich enough to share.

Mark


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 5:12 am 
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Jan Erik wrote:
BTW, the two photos above are copyright. Isn't it board policy to not violate copyright?


:boggle:

The photos might be copyrighted, but they are posted on a publicly available website (i.e. eBay). Providing a link to the eBay listing is not a violation of any copyright.

On the other hand, if the eBay seller using these copyrighted photos doesn't have permission from the owner (assuming the seller is not the owner) then the seller is the one violating copyright law.

Now back to your regularly scheduled thread, currently in progress...

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:00 am 
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jqpublick wrote:
Hi all, here's my question;

Why don't people just give away or lend out their practice sets?



We do. I have a Whitmer practice set that I was going to sell since it wasn't being played. Before I sold it, I discovered a local 14 yr old boy who wanted to give the pipes a try..its currently on loan to him.

-g


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:43 am 
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Clubs and people do loan out practice sets and equipment all the time. Some people prefer buying their own gear, especially in pipes since ongoing maintenance is involved - getting your reed right, etc. Getting used to something that one would have to pass back is an issue for some. Pipes have also been a good investment for folks.

This thread identifies that Pakistani-made pipes and whatever that other 'starter' practice set is is a colossal waste of time and resources for an individual. That gear will not hold or appreciate its value. Nor will someone have 'joy' in getting started with the instrument.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:50 pm 
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And I'd just like to point out one more time that a Pakistani set that has been reworked by a good pipemaker can be a cost effective way of getting into the instrument. And that just because something's made by an American, Brit or Irishman doesn't automatically make it playable, either.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:12 pm 
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WannabePiper wrote:
And I'd just like to point out one more time that a Pakistani set that has been reworked by a good pipemaker can be a cost effective way of getting into the instrument. And that just because something's made by an American, Brit or Irishman doesn't automatically make it playable, either.


I, for one, would be genuinely interested in hearing your definition of "cost effective", and please, provide some actual examples.

My understanding is that a practice set of Pakistani-made pipes can be (for example) $450. Assuming this is correct, I must now take the chanter and send it off to "Pipemaker X" and ask him to get the chanter into playing order - including a new reed.

How much will "Pipemaker X" charge for reworking the chanter, assuming the following needs to be done:

a) re-bore the stick from top to bottom;
b) re-bore some (if not all) tone holes; - OR -
c) refill and re-bore certain tone holes;

Now - steps (a), (b) and (c) as indicated above will also cost money. And this assumes that you can even find a Pipemaker who is willing to undertake these tasks. To my knowledge, there is one, perhaps two, pipemakers in the USA that will even bother with this. I have heard in the past few years that a certain well-established and highly regarded pipemaker will undertake these tasks, and I've heard that the cost of doing so is approximately $1,200. (Please correct me if I am wrong with this number, my memory is poor these days... this MAY be the cost of reworking a full set, but even if it is, the lion's share of the work is in rebuilding the chanter).

If we can assume these figures and tasks are correct, then the actual cash outlay for a "cost effective" practice set is now onwards of $1,650 US dollars. Again, if my assumptions are correct, then this is hardly cost-effective.... and we haven't even considered the cost of REEDING this newly-corrected chanter.

Now, it is also my understanding that a new reed from a reputable maker can cost as much as $80. With this added (not to mention necessary) cost, you're at $1,700. For a practice set? And I haven't even mentioned the aspect of the TIME it would take to get this done. I may be going out on a limb here, but I seriously doubt if the one or two pipemakers that might take the time to rework a Pakistani-made set is going to give it a higher priority than making their own sets, making reeds for their own sets, repairing or upgrading their own sets. Oh yes, then factor in the issue of a Pipemaker having an actual life.

Again - my numbers may be off somewhat, but I have yet to see where a beginning piper would find this method "cost effective". There's a reason that the old adage of "You get what you pay for" is as true today as when it was first put to use in the vernacular.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:16 pm 
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Now, having said all that, there are several very reputable pipemakers who make practice sets that will cost in a range of $500 to $800, and you'll at least have a pipemaker who will stand behind their product.

Their names / costs / websites /emails have been mentioned on this forum ad infinitum, so there's no need for me to get into marketing their names and wares.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:46 pm 
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Well, I got a set off of ebay for about $300, and sent it to a VERY reputable maker, who rebored it and re positioned a couple holes for about $150. Given that Boston Pipeworks wasn't making their current wares at the time and Mr. Sky didn't hjave his budget set going yet, it was by far a beter deal than could be found elsewhere. Plus, there was less than a month turnaround. Of course, it's less of a deal with the above mentioned businesses going strong. In any case, one of these got me started at least 2 years before I ever could have any other way.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:47 pm 
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Oh, there was another $80 or so for a reed too, so, $530 all told. Also,the maker I referred to still stands behind his work.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 11:00 pm 
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wannabepiper wrote:
Well, I got a set off of ebay for about $300, and sent it to a VERY reputable maker, who rebored it and re positioned a couple holes for about $150.


OK, fair play then... clearly, my $1200 figure was well off (and I'm thinking that the figure was related to a full set, as there would be drones and regs to deal with as well).

I see a Pakistani practice set for sale on Ebay right now for $412.50... (buy it now price) ... this is considerably more than you paid (was yours a resale, by chance)?

Frankly, I think the knock on them is deserved (just my opinion), largely due to the fact that many people that buy them don't know about places like this forum, or aren't near a piper or maker who can help guide their decision with experience. That said, there must be a market for them (however small) - otherwise, they wouldn't be making them.

So - you have a Pakistani-made set, it's been reworked, and by your estimationyou're 2 years ahead of the game, and that's certainly a good thing.

How much time did the rework take (just out of curiousity)?

I think the bigger knock on Pakistani pipes is that the majority of folks that buy them don't know that they can be reworked.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 11:51 pm 
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Very wise man named David Hannum once said:"..." ;)

There's a reason this market exists. But some don't do enough homework before plunking down some (or all) of their change.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 9:59 am 
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Brian Lee wrote:
Very wise man named David Hannum once said:"..." ;)

There's a reason this market exists. But some don't do enough homework before plunking down some (or all) of their change.


Hmmm... was Mr. Hannum perhaps a relation of Mr. P.T. Barnum?

:wink:


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