bag position

goatpiper · Post by **goatpiper** » Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:45 am

I've been thinking a lot lately about bag position...both height-wise and laterally speaking. I've mostly played with my bag slung low (note- I do not play regs yet), so I squeeze just above the largest bulge of the bag. Laterally, I have the bag so I'm squeezing pretty close to the front, near the neck.
The best reed I have right now plays pretty hard, so I tried moving the bag up a bit, so my elbow was farther out, and I was pretty much centered on the bulge of air, and noticed that I got very sore after playing, though I had better leverage to gun the hell out of the pressure.

I would love to get thoughts on this topic. I figure I'll be changing things a bit whenever I make some regs to add to my set. That'll be a while yet, but I'm still interested in thinking and talking about it.

Pat Cannady · Post by **Pat Cannady** » Wed Jul 02, 2003 11:03 am

Don't risk tearing up your shoulder, lots of pipers suffer from soreness in their "bag shoulder". It comes from two sources: tough reeds and poor ergonomics.

Don't know enough about the reed to say anything useful other than if it's not a new reed you might want to refine it a bit with some scraping. This will make playing it a bit easier and spare your shoulder.

As for the ergonomics:

Regardless of whether you play the bag high or low, sit up straight and try not to lean forward while playing.

kenr · Post by **kenr** » Wed Jul 02, 2003 2:24 pm

Lorenzo ran a couple of really worthwhile threads a few months back on ergonomics and the low-down on Paddy Keenan's approach to bag postion and all that.

Try searching on Keenan or Lorenzo as poster to track it down. Well worth a read as I recall.

Ken

Lorenzo · Post by **Lorenzo** » Wed Jul 02, 2003 2:56 pm

Here's one...

"A little Chat With Paddy"
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... ergonomics

and here's the other...

"Ergonomics"
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?t=9924

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Wed Jul 02, 2003 4:41 pm

I prefer a low bag and a medium to large bag. Paddy Keenan developed some shoulder problems in his youth and prefers the stretch of vinyl to assist his style. He admits to using the bellows to overinflate the bag and plays the pipes with the bellows, using the bag stretch to do most of the work. This saves his shoulder. This is considered a fault, but it works for him. He also will lean downward on the bag vs. pressing inward with his elbow, as do I. He inflates the bag with his left arm off of it and sets the point of his elbow almost on top of it. This is typical of a low bag style. His mainstock is set low on the to facilitate this style of playing. This sets the top of the bag neck higher when inflated without the left elbow on it. The top of the bag is at about a 45 degree slope downward toward the back of the bag.

Ted

Lorenzo · Post by **Lorenzo** » Wed Jul 02, 2003 9:09 pm

Nice post Ted! Here's a thumbnail of Paddy...from Cobblestone-Netherlands UP page. http://www.uilleann.nl/pipes/pictureGallery/index.html "Paddy Keenan's Workshop in Groningen"

http://www.uilleann.nl/pipes/pictureGal ... CN1558.jpg
(for bigger picture)

Roger O'Keeffe · Post by **Roger O'Keeffe** » Thu Jul 03, 2003 4:57 am

I'm not sure that Paddy K is the best model of ergonomics. He was the first piper whom I saw regularly playing close up, and when I got my first practice set from his father I modelled my posture (consciously or unconsciously?) on Paddy's. Now I look like the Hunchback of Notre Dame when I play .

If you haven't already developed bad habits, think Liam O'Flynn. He seems to manage to reach the regulator keys OK

(Pluiméir limps offstage moaning "The regs! The regs!":lol:)

geber · Post by **geber** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 1:34 am

I am just a beginner, but I find that the higher the bag (in my arm pit actually) the less work my arm has to do... If my reed is playing in well, just the weight of my arm on the bag is enough, for the 1st octive at least..

To each his own.. :roll:

djm · Post by **djm** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 7:53 am

Geber,

If you don't have a stock with drones on your set yet, you may not appreciate what is going on here.

Adding a stock and drones will force you to change the way you hold the bag, both by the additional weight and the need to lay the drones over one's knee without getting in the way of the chanter.

Adding regulators makes it worse, both because of the additional weight plus the need to get the wrist clear of the keys to play the chanter, and yet still be able to hit the reg keys as required. Each time you upgrade your set will force you to adopt new ways of holding your set.

I hate to mention it, but one's girth also has a serious effect on finding a good position.

djm

geber · Post by **geber** » Sun Jul 06, 2003 2:42 am

You are absolutly correct DJM. I am only using a practice at the moment, but I have had the foresight to plan ahead for the day I do add a main stock. If you will notice in Lorenzos' earlier post of Paddy K. and company, his stock(Paddy K) has a low tie-in allowing for higher bag positon as opposed to the gentleman watching him, with high tie-in, his bag is being held a little lower(may just be due to the fact, that he is not playing at the moment)..I have tried to plan ahead.. I am even constantly aware of how far back that I postion my bag, as not to crowd the mainstock (jammed into my gut)when added,.. All considered, I know that I most likely will have to adjust the position when that much anticipated day arrives, but maybe I won't have to start from scratch, due to lack of planning..

Mike

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bag position

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