Proper Tempo for Dance Tunes

[Ceann Cromtha]

Do you know the proper tempo for a hop jig (and all other types of Irish traditional dance tunes) ? I know it’s 9/8, but how many beats per minute should a quarter note be? I’m asking because I’m transcribing a tune (“The Silver Slipper”) in Sibelius and downloading it from The Session renders it: quarter note/crotchet = 120, but that’s way too slow.

I am under the impression that the quarter note/crotchet is the basic unit in this regard, but may be wrong — maybe it’s an eighth note/quaver, etc.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[stringbed]

Dance tunes written in 9/8 normally have three beats per measure, placed on the dotted quarter note/crochet.

[NicoMoreno]

It's three beats to the bar. Hop jigs are probably around there, but dotted quarter notes per minute, not just one regular quarter note per minute.

That said, I think 120 is a bit fast. Probably somewhere between 100 and 120 would work, leaning closer to 100 for learning, for sure.

[Ceann Cromtha]

It's three beats to the bar. Hop jigs are probably around there, but dotted quarter notes per minute, not just one regular quarter note per minute.

That said, I think 120 is a bit fast. Probably somewhere between 100 and 120 would work, leaning closer to 100 for learning, for sure.

Thanks. I’ll gradually change the setting to dotted quarter note (dotted crochet) = 100 - 120 and see how this sounds on the playback feature.

[Ceann Cromtha]

…I just realized that I should have referred to this as dance speed (this was not an easy question for me to formulate)

[Moof]

The main thing about slip jigs is that there's one heavy then two light beats, three times each bar. The beats are fast, so you'd only tap your foot three times per bar.

The actual count per minute count can vary, depending on whether it's being played for dancers or not, by skilled players or not, and what the individual tune is. It almost feels a shame to rush through some of them, but others sound great with a faster pulse.

Outside of step dancing, there isn't really a definitive 'right' speed. It's more that there are conventions among groups of players.

[Ceann Cromtha]

Thank you so much!

[NicoMoreno]

The main thing about slip jigs is that there's one heavy then two light beats, three times each bar. The beats are fast, so you'd only tap your foot three times per bar.

Just wanted to point out that Ceann Cromtha asked about hop jigs, not slip jigs. They're not the same, amongst many musicians (although they are undistinguished by some...).

I should have referred to this as dance speed

"proper tempo", "dance speed", etc are all equally subjective so it didn't really matter. Generally I'd play my slip jigs slower than hop jigs.

As far as I know, most dancers who dance to hop jigs use these steps as the starting point:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtCYUdJJM3s
Despite the label slip jig on the video and dance, the playing and dance would be more like how musicians play hop jigs, but a bit on the slower side, which is good for the purpose.

Here's another good dance example:
https://craft.itma.ie/ga/blog/saothar/c ... sty-miller
(Jackie is someone who initially learned hop jig steps from Michael Tubridy / Dan Furey as shown in the video above, and calls them hop jig steps)

[PJ]

I might be wrong but I recall Breandán Breathnach writing about the correct speeds (in his opinion) for dance tunes in the intro to Ceol Rince na hÉireann. I don't have the book but someone who does might be able to chime in.

[Moof]

Just wanted to point out that Ceann Cromtha asked about hop jigs, not slip jigs. They're not the same, amongst many musicians (although they are undistinguished by some...)

Yes, of course. But I've also picked up a confusion between US and UK use; I've heard US friends using hop jig to describe the same recordings of the same tunes that people in the UK (where I live) call a slip jig. It makes it quite hard to know whether people are talking about the same thing.

From the point of view of learning to play them, they're both in 9/8 time and tend to use a heavy-light-light beat pattern. But emphasis can vary from tune to tune and type to type, and some do have a different feel – whatever the technical term is for "sort of bouncier", for instance.

Probably best to learn by listening rather than focusing on notation (which is pretty unhelpful as regards style).

[Ceann Cromtha]

I might be wrong but I recall Breandán Breathnach writing about the correct speeds (in his opinion) for dance tunes in the intro to Ceol Rince na hÉireann. I don't have the book but someone who does might be able to chime in.

Thanks. That would be helpful to have on hand.

[Mr.Gumby]

... correct speeds (in his opinion)...

What he gave was more descriptive than prosciptive, based on the thoughts of the musicians he consulted. Guidelines for common and comfortable speeds, with the caveat that for sets and half sets a great variety of speeds would be encountered.

He gives slip jigs at 144 for a dotted crotchet.

That would be helpful to have on hand.

Paul de Grae's translations of introductions and endnotes of all CRE volumes are here

[Ceann Cromtha]

Thanks, Peter! Much appreciated.